View Full Version : New To Land Rover, HSE or HSE LUX?


eastLR4
05-29-2011, 01:32 AM
Hi Everyone! - I'm looking for some help with the HSE or HSE LUX decision. I'm ready to buy the LR4 after looking at the Range Rover and this LR4. I currently own a Nissan 350Z Nismo (pictured) and need a 2nd car for poor weather and extra space. I'm going to buy the white 2011 LR4 near the end of July or sometime in August.

I'm really a big fan of the new headlights of the LR4 (versus the LR3) and am pretty much buying the HSE version for that reason alone: Front Halogen Projection Lamps with LED Signature Lighting. Now I don't really like the Halogen part... and I read a thread here on swapping that out to either other whiter halogens or HIDs. Not sure how hard that was to do or what the end effect was (does it give the nice white Xenon HID projection light found on my 350z and cars with a real Xenon HID like the Range Rover, etc?)

So with that dilemma, I'm considering stepping up to the LUX version gives Xenon from the factory which I do value (OEM equipment) but am not sure if its worth $5,000 more? I know you also get the higher quality leather and the premium sound system... I figure with $5,000 saved I could add the Xenon lights myself and an even better sound system, which I plan on doing anyways.

Is the LUX leather/HID/480 watt sound system worth the $5,000 premium?

Also, as far as pricing is considered - I went today to the Land Rover dealer in Parsippany NJ and was looking at the RR HSE as well and the guy offered $6,000 off MSRP. We didn't talk about the LR4 in detail since my first choice was the RR but thought it over and felt going with the LR4 would be a much easier financial decision. How much discounts have you guys been receiving from your dealers on the LR4?

Thank you!

Count Laszlo
05-29-2011, 01:36 AM
Oh no, here we ago again! :-)

HSE non-lux all the way.

My LR4 HSE non-lux sticker was $55,800, I paid $51k flat.

eastLR4
05-29-2011, 01:41 AM
Sorry! I kept getting this when searching the forum for lux or hse vs lux "The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search"

Anyhow I found 1 other thread buried deep and I'm going regular HSE. Why pay $5,000 for something I can upgrade myself for a fraction of the cost.

Thats why I love this forum already!

Count Laszlo
05-29-2011, 01:51 AM
Sorry! I kept getting this when searching the forum for lux or hse vs lux "The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search"

Anyhow I found 1 other thread buried deep and I'm going regular HSE. Why pay $5,000 for something I can upgrade myself for a fraction of the cost.

Thats why I love this forum already!

Don't worry about not searching before posting on this forum :-)

The non-lux vs. lux debate will go on forever, it's like the manual vs. double-clutch debate.

I couldn't agree with you more! The non-lux HSE is already really well equipped and the money saved can go into usefuls tools and mods!

Nice ride btw... I sold my 2008 M3 back in Nov.

Finlayforprez
05-29-2011, 02:48 AM
Hi Everyone! - I'm looking for some help with the HSE or HSE LUX decision. I'm ready to buy the LR4 after looking at the Range Rover and this LR4. I currently own a Nissan 350Z Nismo (pictured) and need a 2nd car for poor weather and extra space. I'm going to buy the white 2011 LR4 near the end of July or sometime in August.

I'm really a big fan of the new headlights of the LR4 (versus the LR3) and am pretty much buying the HSE version for that reason alone: Front Halogen Projection Lamps with LED Signature Lighting. Now I don't really like the Halogen part... and I read a thread here on swapping that out to either other whiter halogens or HIDs. Not sure how hard that was to do or what the end effect was (does it give the nice white Xenon HID projection light found on my 350z and cars with a real Xenon HID like the Range Rover, etc?)

So with that dilemma, I'm considering stepping up to the LUX version gives Xenon from the factory which I do value (OEM equipment) but am not sure if its worth $5,000 more? I know you also get the higher quality leather and the premium sound system... I figure with $5,000 saved I could add the Xenon lights myself and an even better sound system, which I plan on doing anyways.

Is the LUX leather/HID/480 watt sound system worth the $5,000 premium?

Also, as far as pricing is considered - I went today to the Land Rover dealer in Parsippany NJ and was looking at the RR HSE as well and the guy offered $6,000 off MSRP. We didn't talk about the LR4 in detail since my first choice was the RR but thought it over and felt going with the LR4 would be a much easier financial decision. How much discounts have you guys been receiving from your dealers on the LR4?

Thank you!
Hey there,

This is definitely something that has come up on this forum. If you don't mind spending the money, then go for the Lux. If you want the HID lights, then I think you can get the HSE non-lux and get the vission assist package and you'd still be well below the cost of the Lux. I have the HSE and changed out my lights according to the thread by Count Laszlo and they look awesom!

Keep us posted and best of luck!

LRnewbie11
05-29-2011, 08:58 AM
If I had it to do over again I would probably get the LUX. BUT let me say there is absolutely nothing wrong with the HSE non LUX. I love it. My reasons for wanting the LUX are the passive keyless entry and the HID lights. I can make do without the passive keyless entry. Just a cool feature n my mind. I too have replaced the stock headlights with the Phillips CV ultras and they are a very close facsimile to the HIDs. Vision assist is a neat feature but I think most owners especially on this forum would say it is very
"buggy". I believe there is a TSB for the surround camera package to fix this. Take a look at both. It may or may not come down to price. Either way you are getting a LR4!

LRnewbie11
05-29-2011, 09:04 AM
As far as the leather goes... Do you have dogs? Young kids? The LUX leather is a little softer. That's it. That is one thing that I wouldn't trade out on my non LUX. I feel like the leather is more durable in the non LUX. I have a 25lb Boston Terrier who travels with us a lot and hopefully, God willing, babies in the near future and I feel more comfortable with the non LUX leather. I'm sure some LUX owners will disagree with me and that is fine. Just my opinion.

rainmn
05-29-2011, 11:33 AM
We don't have the LUX package, and the one missing feature that is driving me nuts is the lack of memory seat / mirrors.

I think it's crazy that on a $55K truck, this isn't a standard feature.

Passive keyless entry would nice to have too, but I've never had it before, so I don't miss it.

Count Laszlo
05-29-2011, 12:08 PM
As far as the leather goes... Do you have dogs? Young kids? The LUX leather is a little softer. That's it. That is one thing that I wouldn't trade out on my non LUX. I feel like the leather is more durable in the non LUX. I have a 25lb Boston Terrier who travels with us a lot and hopefully, God willing, babies in the near future and I feel more comfortable with the non LUX leather. I'm sure some LUX owners will disagree with me and that is fine. Just my opinion.

Agree on the leather front, this was my main reason for the non-lux. I think the non-lux leather looks better, doesn't have that pleated tuck on the edges which IMO looks very Lexus (Japanese luxury) and since the leather is softer, I don't worry about ruining it... This is a Land Rover after all and although a lot of owners won't put this beast through the paces, I do and appreciate the simplicity more. I've also had all the fancy features on my old M3, folding mirrors, key-less entry, etc etc and never used them and/or never found a good reason to have them for the extra cash.

eastLR4
05-29-2011, 12:36 PM
Hey there,

This is definitely something that has come up on this forum. If you don't mind spending the money, then go for the Lux. If you want the HID lights, then I think you can get the HSE non-lux and get the vission assist package and you'd still be well below the cost of the Lux. I have the HSE and changed out my lights according to the thread by Count Laszlo and they look awesom!

Keep us posted and best of luck!

I guess I will see what the best deal is. Money is of course a factor or I'd go for the LUX version. (Actually I'd just get the RR instead, lol). That vision assist package does sound pretty nice. It's the only real reason for the LUX in my opinion. To answer some of the other questions I do not have any pets that can travel inside a car or kids and don't plan on having those in the near future. Keyless entry I'm sure would be useful but I wouldn't want to pay for it (should be standard). The memory seats would be nice but probably not worth the premium again. I'm thinking I'd like to save even that $1,800 on the vision assist package with a DIY change...

For Finlayforprez, Laszlao, and LRnewbie11 - how hard was it to change the lights out? What color is your headlight now as seen from an oncoming driver? I'm looking for that white or every so slight mixed with blue tint on the headlights as seen on normal HID's.

You guys have pretty much made my decision to go with the HSE version. Thanks again

eastLR4
05-29-2011, 01:41 PM
I read the other thread on changing the lights out and it seems like a piece of cake. Appreciate all the good info out there!

LRnewbie11
05-29-2011, 02:46 PM
There should be some pics of the lights that have been converted using the Phillips CV ultras in this forum. You can kind of get an idea what they look like from the pics but I can tell you that it is going to give you a much brighter WHITE. The stock halogens are downright dull yellow. If you do replace I would recommend doing the low beams, high beams, AND the fog lights for maximum affect. The change out is not that complicated.

eastLR4
05-29-2011, 03:54 PM
There should be some pics of the lights that have been converted using the Phillips CV ultras in this forum. You can kind of get an idea what they look like from the pics but I can tell you that it is going to give you a much brighter WHITE. The stock halogens are downright dull yellow. If you do replace I would recommend doing the low beams, high beams, AND the fog lights for maximum affect. The change out is not that complicated.

I think the Phillips CV is best route. I may go PIAA's too since I've always liked them. I like the contrast between the white low beams and the PIAA H11 PLASMA YELLOW fog lights... would be sweet!

Count Laszlo
05-29-2011, 09:27 PM
I was looking into PIAA prior to the CV ultras, and the Ultras were hands down brighter. But, I do agree the plasma yellow for fogs would be awesome, but at $100 a set, I couldn't justify. If you do get your Lanny and do the yellow for fogs please take a pic.

UGAgirl97
05-30-2011, 12:22 AM
3 weeks ago my husband surprised me with a white 2011 LR4 HSE! I love it! And I actually started a similar thread a couple months ago bc I was concerned with all thte cameras and "blue screen" issues people with LUX were having. I figured the less gadgets I have, the less can go wrong. The only thing I really would love from the LUX is the Keyless entry ( with kids this would be huge for me) and the memory seats bc my husband, who has never been a "car guy", now constantly wants to drive my car and has completely fallen in love with it. In fact, he said if money weren't an object, he'd get a fully loaded RR! But of course, money is an object. Lol I am thrilled with my HSE and those two components I mentioned weren't really worth the extra 6k. Let us know what you decide, but you can't go wrong with the HSE...especially in white!! Outstanding!

eastLR4
05-30-2011, 01:22 AM
Laszlo, I'll be sure to post plenty of pics. I'm not a huge fan of the white HID low beams and then white HID looking fogs, especially since the fog lights are not projectors. Maybe I just want to be a little different!

UGAgirl97, yes I saw your threads and saw your car pics, looks awesome. Exactly what I plan to buy soon. I'm going to visit the dealership once I'm ready to buy in about 6 weeks and then hopefully get a good deal on the HSE. If the only whites in stock at the time have either the vision assist or LUX packages, then I'll see what kind of specials the dealerships can give. Also hopefully they will want to clear out the 2011 models for those 2012's coming in. At the end of the day I'd like to save as much as possible while getting the important features I'd like in the LR4.

Finlayforprez
05-30-2011, 01:44 AM
I guess I will see what the best deal is. Money is of course a factor or I'd go for the LUX version. (Actually I'd just get the RR instead, lol). That vision assist package does sound pretty nice. It's the only real reason for the LUX in my opinion. To answer some of the other questions I do not have any pets that can travel inside a car or kids and don't plan on having those in the near future. Keyless entry I'm sure would be useful but I wouldn't want to pay for it (should be standard). The memory seats would be nice but probably not worth the premium again. I'm thinking I'd like to save even that $1,800 on the vision assist package with a DIY change...

For Finlayforprez, Laszlao, and LRnewbie11 - how hard was it to change the lights out? What color is your headlight now as seen from an oncoming driver? I'm looking for that white or every so slight mixed with blue tint on the headlights as seen on normal HID's.

You guys have pretty much made my decision to go with the HSE version. Thanks again
Hello eastLR4,

The low beams, high beams, and fogs are extremely easy (and kind of fun) to change to the Philips CV. The light is extremely white with a definite bluish tint to them. I will say, it looks really sharp on the road and very similar to the normal HIDs. If you end up with the HSE, then I definitely recommend this upgrade. The fog lights would look great with the yellowish bulbs you described. I have attached a picture so you can see my lights all converted (low beams and fogs on). Unfortunately, the LED accent lights are a little blurry in the pic, but they are MUCH nicer in person! :)

I would definitely try to get the most LR4 you can for your money. If they are willing to give you the HSE Lux for a good deal and you can swing it, then go for it! :) I think you will be extremely happy with the HSE non-Lux if you go that route, especially since you want to save a little money.

Keep us posted and feel free to ask any questions!

ougrad1
05-30-2011, 01:47 AM
Dear God, this question should just be sticky with the last thread.

Again for the HSE only folks who don't really know what fully comes with the LUX, the vision assist package with the cameras are not part of the LUX and you can get them as a separate package even with HSE. So please stop stating how the lux with all it's additional gadgets that can go wrong makes the HSE a smart choice when the only thing referenced by most HSE owners doesn't even come with the lux.

As a Lux owner, I have no problems hearing opinions from the HSE folks to help out new folks but please show some more intelligence and at least be accurate with your explanations. Otherwise, you just sound petty. Especially where after speaking negatively about Lux options, most HSE owners follow it up with, "but the memory seats would be nice because my husband drives my car...passive keyless would be great...wished my lights were as bright as the OEM HIDs." By the way, one of the most comical assumptions posted is somehow the premium leather is less durable than the regular leather - that just honestly sounds stupid but it's impressive reading other HSE posters eat that $hit up like it's gospel..we have little HSE droids developing bases on a few staunch, but somewhat off-base, HSE owners who have no factual knowledge at all whether this is true.

My opinion again is if folks who bought the HSE could have afforded the LUX, they would have bought it. I also went looking for the hSE but got an awesome deal on a LUX. I got my lux for $48k when it was listed at $59k. So maybe the question should be how can one negotiate if some/all of the LUX options have any value to you.

EastLR4,

You may go with the HSE as most do but please take some of these posts with a grain of salt because quite frankly, some are not fully accurate. Please go check out both and see if you can get the LUX close to HSE as per another poster, gas prices may help your negotiations...BTW, love the nismo.

uhur
05-30-2011, 01:53 AM
I am new to Land Rover, purchased an LR4 LUX with optional 20" wheel package in silver 2 weeks ago. Was torn between a RRS, a Mercedes, an LR4 and less so, a Lexus GX. After driving /researching all of them, an LR was the obvious choice I had to have LUX because I really liked the LUX package options, and once you get to $55-60K price range, it didn't make sense to pinch pennies. I just had to negotiate a bit harder, on the edge of being a "tough" customer, yet pleasant just enough not to be "blacklisted" at the dealership.

I love it! Sadly though, I had to trade my 3 year old Saab 9-5. I've been a Saab loyalist for many years, but couldn't take the brand being continuously bastardized and once again coming to the brink of extinction.

Hope to have an RR in a few years, but am loving my LUX in the meantime; it rules the road (well paved in my case)!

...and yes, Vision Assist package is NOT standard on a LUX, the rear view back up camera is....

ougrad1
05-30-2011, 02:07 AM
I am new to Land Rover, purchased an LR4 LUX with optional 20" wheel package in silver 2 weeks ago. Was torn between a RRS, a Mercedes, an LR4 and less so, a Lexus GX. After driving /researching all of them, an LR was the obvious choice I had to have LUX because I really liked the LUX package options, and once you get to $55-60K price range, it didn't make sense to pinch pennies. I just had to negotiate a bit harder, on the edge of being a "tough" customer, yet pleasant just enough not to be "blacklisted" at the dealership.

I love it! Sadly though, I had to trade my 3 year old Saab 9-5. I've been a Saab loyalist for many years, but couldn't take the brand being continuously bastardized and once again coming to the brink of extinction.

Hope to have an RR in a few years, but am loving my LUX in the meantime; it rules the road (well paved in my case)!

Welcome and congrats on your purchase!...even though it was not very smart based on these HSE folks.:wink: Sorry, I could not help myself.

What color? Also, which 20" wheels did you get? I considered upgrading to 20s so I can have better off-road tire options but the ones that I wanted, 20" metropolis wheels, are $800 a piece from LR shipped from UK.

UGAgirl97
05-30-2011, 02:17 AM
Ougrad1.... Wow...we "HSE Folks" hit a nerve, huh? Good lord. I personally was not attacking your LUX. I'm sure its fabulous. I didn't realize people on here got so heated when we all drive the same car. I mention the cameras in my post and referred to it on a LUX bc the only posters I have seen on here with Vision Assist and with those problems happen to drive the LUX. I am well aware that package is separate and not standard on the LUX. We are all on the same team here and love our Land Rovers and we could have afforded the LUX, but it wasn't crucial to me and I could have never gotten it for the price you did bc there is one dealership in my area and that's over an hour away. The next nearest is 4 hours away. I paid more for my HSE than you did for your LUX. Kudos to you. That was an impossibility for me. And what I wanted most in the car (navi, bluetooth, backup camera, iPod,) came standard on the HSE, so I was sold.

Again, no need to get your back up. It's not us vs you. HSE v LUX. It's our experiences we share for basically the same car we all share and love.

uhur
05-30-2011, 02:17 AM
The color is Zermatt silver, and the wheels are the standard LR4 wheel upgrade option @ $2500 (not sure of their name) that came that way from the factory. The whole thing MSRP's @ $60,165, I believe

I test drove both standard 19" and optional 20's...liked the handling/ride + importantly, the appearance of the 20" much better; so it was worth the money.

It is my first silver car, I've always owned black. But with this one, I can't possibly imagine how I'd keep a black one clean/waxed

ougrad1
05-30-2011, 03:16 AM
Ougrad1.... Wow...we "HSE Folks" hit a nerve, huh? Good lord. I personally was not attacking your LUX. I'm sure its fabulous. I didn't realize people on here got so heated when we all drive the same car. I mention the cameras in my post and referred to it on a LUX bc the only posters I have seen on here with Vision Assist and with those problems happen to drive the LUX. I am well aware that package is separate and not standard on the LUX. We are all on the same team here and love our Land Rovers and we could have afforded the LUX, but it wasn't crucial to me and I could have never gotten it for the price you did bc there is one dealership in my area and that's over an hour away. The next nearest is 4 hours away. I paid more for my HSE than you did for your LUX. Kudos to you. That was an impossibility for me. And what I wanted most in the car (navi, bluetooth, backup camera, iPod,) came standard on the HSE, so I was sold.

Again, no need to get your back up. It's not us vs you. HSE v LUX. It's our experiences we share for basically the same car we all share and love.

UGgirl97,

Believe me, I don't take your post personal and am sorry if I used your post as an example of inaccuracy as it was. I honestly don't remember whose posts I used and replied more based on the content of the posts I read. Thus I never called anyone out but I do feel strongly about making sure new posters who ask questions regarding the packages do get an honest, accurate view...sorry if I got you worked up there.

Obviously, it will be subjective, which is why they are asking for both sides. But let's face it, what comes from staunch HSE owners is at times inaccurate and baseless regarding the LUX options. That's where you guys are not understanding you are not actually helping the potential customer at all. For instance, you may have understood that the vision assist package doesn't come with the lux and can come with HSE but your post communicated otherwise. This may leave them to think the LUX has camera issues when it doesn't and don't know some of the folks with issues were actually also HSE owners too. Can you see how that is not helpful?

This should be a more engaging topic where flat-dumb assumptions are left out. I have no business commenting on the longevity of HSE leather or your projector lights as I have no idea how they function daily. Any attempt on my part about how the HSE might be lesser to the LUX would be assumptions only on my part as I don't own an HSE...well, basically I do but you get the point. But I can tell you why I appreciate my cooler box on long Texas drives to visit the inlaws, how the auto-highbeams are very nice and the memory seat is great for after my car wash guy moves my seat around , I can just hit a button to move it back to where it was. It does seem like HSE owners have way too many assumptions on why the LUX package options may not be worth it, which is fine as it's your own opinion, but the reasons given are often pure assumptions that as a LUX owner, I know isn't accurate.

Also, thanks for sharing your purchase experience as like I mentioned before, had you been able to get a LUX for what you paid for your HSE or what I paid, you would have gladly taken it. I was not looking for the LUX either so I feel like I understand where most of the HSE folks come from...for $60k, all the LUX options were not worth it to me at the time. For $48k, hell yea!

I'm sure I repeated myself a few times in this post as it's late but I honestly am trying to communicate this as not to upset folks but to hopefully ask that the HSE folks put a little more thought not around your opinions on why you chose an HSE, but the assumptions you're making about the LUX options or at least qualifying them better since you do have resident "LUX experts" who will gladly offer our experiences, good and bad. That to me would be more of what you termed "on the same team." I may be the most vocal LUX owner but I think this is something that will help this small community going forward.

ougrad1
05-30-2011, 03:48 AM
The color is Zermatt silver, and the wheels are the standard LR4 wheel upgrade option @ $2500 (not sure of their name) that came that way from the factory. The whole thing MSRP's @ $60,165, I believe

I test drove both standard 19" and optional 20's...liked the handling/ride + importantly, the appearance of the 20" much better; so it was worth the money.

It is my first silver car, I've always owned black. But with this one, I can't possibly imagine how I'd keep a black one clean/waxed

All my cars have been black too minus my last car which was my one moment experimenting with another color(white). It was great for this Texas heat but I found myself drooling over 'clean' black cars of interest. The silver is very nice and classy. My buddy with an lr3 has silver with black rims and it looks sweet. He's got oversized tires but added the Johnson rods mod. Did you mention you were considering putting a stereo in? Let me know what your plans are as I put one in too using a JL cleansweep.

LRnewbie11
05-30-2011, 07:29 AM
I don't believe anyone said anything about the LUX not being a smart purchase. I will concede the point thT I was not aware you could get the vision assist package on a non LUX model. But I don't think manyeople would disagree that it ihas had it problems. As far as the leather thing goes if you rereAd MY post about it I explicitly say that it my my OPINION that it would not hold up as well. I test drove both I looked at both. I still hold that opinion. You have a different one. Great. Congratulations. When it came down to it yes I did the best deal on the HSE no LUX. It is awfully presumptuous of you to assume that anyone who didn't get the LUX couldn't afford it.

mama0428
05-30-2011, 09:56 AM
Hi everyone... Just picked up my new 2011 LR4 on Saturday...we were rushed because it was late in the day so we did not have time to go over the details of the car. I was wondering if anyone knows the passcode to set up the Bluetooth? I am going back to the dealer tomorrow but would love to set it up today...any suggestions would be great! Also, was looking around on the forum and saw that there is a patch/ install for the voice activation feature that was removed from the later made models due to multiple problems...is it worth making an attempt to have them install it in my car? I did not have it before in my other car...from what I've read some love it and others hate it... I am thinking it would be a nice thing to have but maybe not worth the trouble?
Lastly....you all helped me to make my final decision of getting the car, I was on the fence but after lurking around and reading what everyone had to say helped me make up my mind... So thank you!!!!
Happy Memorial day!!

eastLR4
05-30-2011, 12:08 PM
Dear God, this question should just be sticky with the last thread.

Again for the HSE only folks who don't really know what fully comes with the LUX, the vision assist package with the cameras are not part of the LUX and you can get them as a separate package even with HSE. So please stop stating how the lux with all it's additional gadgets that can go wrong makes the HSE a smart choice when the only thing referenced by most HSE owners doesn't even come with the lux.

As a Lux owner, I have no problems hearing opinions from the HSE folks to help out new folks but please show some more intelligence and at least be accurate with your explanations. Otherwise, you just sound petty. Especially where after speaking negatively about Lux options, most HSE owners follow it up with, "but the memory seats would be nice because my husband drives my car...passive keyless would be great...wished my lights were as bright as the OEM HIDs." By the way, one of the most comical assumptions posted is somehow the premium leather is less durable than the regular leather - that just honestly sounds stupid but it's impressive reading other HSE posters eat that up like it's gospel..we have little HSE droids developing bases on a few staunch, but somewhat off-base, HSE owners who have no factual knowledge at all whether this is true.

My opinion again is if folks who bought the HSE could have afforded the LUX, they would have bought it. I also went looking for the hSE but got an awesome deal on a LUX. I got my lux for $48k when it was listed at $59k. So maybe the question should be how can one negotiate if some/all of the LUX options have any value to you.

EastLR4,

You may go with the HSE as most do but please take some of these posts with a grain of salt because quite frankly, some are not fully accurate. Please go check out both and see if you can get the LUX close to HSE as per another poster, gas prices may help your negotiations...BTW, love the nismo.

It's great to hear all these other opinions. Thanks Ougrad. I think for the extra 10% or so in cost for upgrading to the LUX... well most on this forum can "afford" it or you have bigger problems than buying the LR4. It definitely comes down to opinion and whether those options are worth how much you have to pay after negotiations with the dealership.

I'm also thinking of 20" rims, along with a JL sub upgrade and some minor comestic mods. Please post your experience if/when you get that JL cleansweep and how it works, etc


uhur - nice ride, pics? The standard 20's are a very nice rim and I may even get that, then powdercoat it black.

ougrad1
05-30-2011, 01:32 PM
Sure, you guys are right and I did a poor job clarifying what I meant by afford as i thought my purchase experience conveyed that same point. That said, there should still be some sense of qualifying better what is just an opinion and where we may be stating incorrect info about lux options as these threads are meant for helping new folks garner existing customer experience with both packages and not baseless guesses on how the lux options can be more problematic/less durable.

rattlee
05-30-2011, 02:14 PM
HSE LUX. Worth that extra money.
When you are spending 50 might as well put in that 7 extra to get the works!

Count Laszlo
05-30-2011, 02:23 PM
I could have purchased the LUX, it wasn't a financial decision, or crutch for that matter, I just liked the non-lux leather seats more. I also like being a little more understated and simplistic since the crash of 2008. Being cheap and thrifty is now fashionable, regardless of income. Flashy, endless spending, is out.

I also don't like smooth leather, have had it in the past, and it's a pain in the ass to keep up. I don't know much about LR's smooth leather durability, maybe it is amazing, but I haven't had good experiences with that type of leather in the past. My wife has the old-school leather in her BMW and it's still looks new. The smooth leather I had in my M3 looked like dog-pooh just a year after purchase.

AND, I've stated this before, the non-Lux leather is also used in the base RRS and RR non-lux versions... so it can't be that bad.

gfcronus
05-30-2011, 03:45 PM
I don't believe anyone said anything about the LUX not being a smart purchase. I will concede the point thT I was not aware you could get the vision assist package on a non LUX model. But I don't think manyeople would disagree that it ihas had it problems. As far as the leather thing goes if you rereAd MY post about it I explicitly say that it my my OPINION that it would not hold up as well. I test drove both I looked at both. I still hold that opinion. You have a different one. Great. Congratulations. When it came down to it yes I did the best deal on the HSE no LUX. It is awfully presumptuous of you to assume that anyone who didn't get the LUX couldn't afford it.

But didn't you lease your HSE, LRNewbie?

gfcronus
05-30-2011, 03:50 PM
I could have purchased the LUX, it wasn't a financial decision, or crutch for that matter, I just liked the non-lux leather seats more. I also like being a little more understated and simplistic since the crash of 2008. Being cheap and thrifty is now fashionable, regardless of income. Flashy, endless spending, is out.

I love it. Looking cheap and thrifty in a 2011 LR4 HSE. How do you pull that off? And how does the average person standing on the street, whom you want to impress with your thriftiness, tell the difference between a LUX and a straight HSE?

Count Laszlo
05-30-2011, 03:58 PM
I love it. Looking cheap and thrifty in a 2011 LR4 HSE. How do you pull that off? And how does the average person standing on the street, whom you want to impress with your thriftiness, tell the difference between a LUX and a straight HSE?

Oh... Please!

uhur
05-30-2011, 04:14 PM
I could have purchased the LUX, it wasn't a financial decision, or crutch for that matter, I just liked the non-lux leather seats more. I also like being a little more understated and simplistic since the crash of 2008. Being cheap and thrifty is now fashionable, regardless of income. Flashy, endless spending, is out.

.

I am new here, so I apologize in advance, but I couldn't help it..

...:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::

LRnewbie11
05-30-2011, 08:33 PM
I did lease. Hence the good deal. What's your point?

Count Laszlo
05-30-2011, 10:23 PM
Guys, ok... ok, I guess you can't really call a Land Rover thrifty, but it is the less expensive car I've purchased in a very long time, so for me, it is a responsible purchase.

UGAgirl97
05-31-2011, 10:26 AM
UGgirl97,

Believe me, I don't take your post personal and am sorry if I used your post as an example of inaccuracy as it was. I honestly don't remember whose posts I used and replied more based on the content of the posts I read. Thus I never called anyone out but I do feel strongly about making sure new posters who ask questions regarding the packages do get an honest, accurate view...sorry if I got you worked up there.

Obviously, it will be subjective, which is why they are asking for both sides. But let's face it, what comes from staunch HSE owners is at times inaccurate and baseless regarding the LUX options. That's where you guys are not understanding you are not actually helping the potential customer at all. For instance, you may have understood that the vision assist package doesn't come with the lux and can come with HSE but your post communicated otherwise. This may leave them to think the LUX has camera issues when it doesn't and don't know some of the folks with issues were actually also HSE owners too. Can you see how that is not helpful?

This should be a more engaging topic where flat-dumb assumptions are left out. I have no business commenting on the longevity of HSE leather or your projector lights as I have no idea how they function daily. Any attempt on my part about how the HSE might be lesser to the LUX would be assumptions only on my part as I don't own an HSE...well, basically I do but you get the point. But I can tell you why I appreciate my cooler box on long Texas drives to visit the inlaws, how the auto-highbeams are very nice and the memory seat is great for after my car wash guy moves my seat around , I can just hit a button to move it back to where it was. It does seem like HSE owners have way too many assumptions on why the LUX package options may not be worth it, which is fine as it's your own opinion, but the reasons given are often pure assumptions that as a LUX owner, I know isn't accurate.

Also, thanks for sharing your purchase experience as like I mentioned before, had you been able to get a LUX for what you paid for your HSE or what I paid, you would have gladly taken it. I was not looking for the LUX either so I feel like I understand where most of the HSE folks come from...for $60k, all the LUX options were not worth it to me at the time. For $48k, hell yea!

I'm sure I repeated myself a few times in this post as it's late but I honestly am trying to communicate this as not to upset folks but to hopefully ask that the HSE folks put a little more thought not around your opinions on why you chose an HSE, but the assumptions you're making about the LUX options or at least qualifying them better since you do have resident "LUX experts" who will gladly offer our experiences, good and bad. That to me would be more of what you termed "on the same team." I may be the most vocal LUX owner but I think this is something that will help this small community going forward.

Ougrad1,

You make a good point about being more specific when asked by someone regarding HSE and LUX...I took it for granted that people would know Vision Assist didnt come standard on the LUX and I should have clarified that.

I just want you to know none of us were slamming the LUX at all or telling him he shouldnt buy the LUX. I, for one, was just wanting the OP to know that if he decides not to spend the extra cash on the LUX, that he or she will still be very happy with the HSE truck bc I am one poster who has the HSE and I'm extremely happy. I dont feel like I am missing out and I am glad I didnt spend the extra $$ b/c it wasnt worth it to me (but it is to many other people, which is great), but if I had the chance to get the LUX for the price you got it, you can bet your bottom dollar I would be driving a LUX. They are both outstanding vehicles.

gfcronus
05-31-2011, 01:08 PM
I did lease. Hence the good deal. What's your point?


If you don't mind me asking, what was it about leasing that attracted you?

uhur
05-31-2011, 01:37 PM
Actually, I too contemplated leasing mine, but there were no deals to be had: not great and not too horrible, just average.The money factor wasn't spectacular, residuals weren't artificially inflated. No special incentives to lease led me to finance it; as an added bonus, no mileage limitations to worry about

LRnewbie11
05-31-2011, 02:05 PM
well the attraction was initially the fact that I could go from my 06 X3 to a 2011 LR4 and drop my payment by about $80. The second thing is that I get bored with my cats after about 3 years so this way I get a new car on that time frame every 3 years. Im well aware of the two schools of thought about lease vs. buy. At tgis point in my life it makes more sense to lease. It might change someday. Thats basically it.

Finlayforprez
05-31-2011, 04:46 PM
well the attraction was initially the fact that I could go from my 06 X3 to a 2011 LR4 and drop my payment by about $80. The second thing is that I get bored with my cats after about 3 years so this way I get a new car on that time frame every 3 years. Im well aware of the two schools of thought about lease vs. buy. At tgis point in my life it makes more sense to lease. It might change someday. Thats basically it.
Hello LRNewbie11,

I am in the same boat as you. I was able to get rid of my 2009 ML350 (which still had a year left in the lease) and get into a 2011 LR4 HSE for less money. Leasing really works well for me because I am the only driver, put very minimal miles on my car (5-8K a year at the most), and take very good care of my cars. Plus, I can barely handle keeping a car (I get bored as well) for more than 2-3 years. It just works really well for me. Under other circumstances, I would definitely buy my car.

Have a great day!

-David

UGAgirl97
05-31-2011, 04:52 PM
well the attraction was initially the fact that I could go from my 06 X3 to a 2011 LR4 and drop my payment by about $80. The second thing is that I get bored with my cats after about 3 years so this way I get a new car on that time frame every 3 years. Im well aware of the two schools of thought about lease vs. buy. At tgis point in my life it makes more sense to lease. It might change someday. Thats basically it.

Let me tell you, I am like you and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have a new car every 3 years and I really pushed to lease when we got me my next car. My husband likes to buy and keep for SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS and he bought it so I lost...but I would SO lease if it were up to me :-)

gfcronus
05-31-2011, 05:02 PM
I've never leased and don't think I ever could. Just seems like a long-term rental agreement. Hate the thought of driving something around that ain't mine.

UGAgirl97
05-31-2011, 05:05 PM
I've never leased and don't think I ever could. Just seems like a long-term rental agreement. Hate the thought of driving something around that ain't mine.

Hey....are you really my husband??? LOL....:proud:

LR4Austin
06-01-2011, 09:47 PM
I agree I enjoy owning my truck and would never consider a lease. I love my 2011 Nara Bronze LUX truck!

gfcronus
06-02-2011, 11:25 AM
Why anyone would lease is beyond me, really. You're renting the car, plain and simple. I guess leasing can get you into a better car at a lower monthly payment, but that's just code for not being able to finance it.

And if at the end of the lease term, you decide you want to buy the vehicle, you end up paying thousands of dollars more than you would have had you just financed the car in the first place.

I read somewhere--I think it was Money magazine--that if you can't afford to pay a car off in three years, then you can't afford the car and you shouldn't be driving it.

Finlayforprez
06-02-2011, 11:50 AM
Why anyone would lease is beyond me, really. You're renting the car, plain and simple. I guess leasing can get you into a better car at a lower monthly payment, but that's just code for not being able to finance it.

And if at the end of the lease term, you decide you want to buy the vehicle, you end up paying thousands of dollars more than you would have had you just financed the car in the first place.

I read somewhere--I think it was Money magazine--that if you can't afford to pay a car off in three years, then you can't afford the car and you shouldn't be driving it.
Thank you for your input.

UGAgirl97
06-02-2011, 12:11 PM
Thank you for your input.

LOL....love your response David.

What happened to our supportive, NICE, LR4 forum? Why have certain people become so judgemental and assuming...and often, rude? It's a shame b/c if we cut all of that crap out and got back to advice and helpful hints, than it be a much more pleasant place. Here's hoping....

crewcabrob
06-02-2011, 12:31 PM
I didn't see any thing that was rude about the responses above. I see that some are very direct, but I didn't see that any of them were derogatory in anyway. Opinionated? Yeah, I will say some are quicker to point thiers out.

I've thought about leasing in the past, but haven't ever done it. I'm one that loves to drive a new car every 3-5 years, but it doesn't always happen for me. I had my last vehicle for 6 years before getting the LR4.

If it is true that you should be able to pay off a vehicle in 3 years, then I shouldn't have the LR4. I could do it, but I would have to make MAJOR changes to my life style to accomplish it. It would be about $1500-1600 a month for just a car payment. With three teenagers at home, I just wouldnt have that much extra for such a large payment.

Rob

Finlayforprez
06-02-2011, 12:49 PM
LOL....love your response David.

What happened to our supportive, NICE, LR4 forum? Why have certain people become so judgemental and assuming...and often, rude? It's a shame b/c if we cut all of that crap out and got back to advice and helpful hints, than it be a much more pleasant place. Here's hoping....
Thanks, UGAgirl! :)

I definitely appreciate all of the feedback from everyone (direct or not - hehe) and I know the pros and cons of leasing vs. buying. I definitely do NOT think leasing is for everyone, but it works for me right now. I have owned and leased cars in the past and it's worked out great. My last car (2009 ML350) was a lease and the LR dealership bought be out almost a year early. I could afford to finance it, though 3 years would mean a big payment, but at this point in my life leasing works out great for me. I may very well choose to buy my next car, just have to see what's best for me at that time.

So, I can see what everyone is saying, but the best thing is for everyone to evaluate what works best for them and be fully aware of the pros and cons of buying and leasing and make the best personal decision.

Now, onward and upward to an awesome LR4 discussion forum! :)

Regards, David

waltzonice
06-02-2011, 03:16 PM
I am very old school... would never lease a car and in fact I've never even financed a car. My dad had bought me a truck when I was in college. Drove that for a few years and then bought my first car -- 1998 Mercedes ML320 -- with cash. Drove that until I bought my LR4 last October.

But back to the topic... I really wanted the memory driver package and passive keyless entry. So for me, the LUX was my only option and I never even considered the HSE. I like some of the other stuff too, like the xenon lights, better stereo, front parking distance controls, and have even used the cooler box a few times. I'm paying this much... what's another $5k??? I plan on keeping this LR4 for as long as I can, so might as well load it up and enjoy it! :biggrin:

gfcronus
06-02-2011, 03:19 PM
If it is true that you should be able to pay off a vehicle in 3 years, then I shouldn't have the LR4. I could do it, but I would have to make MAJOR changes to my life style to accomplish it. It would be about $1500-1600 a month for just a car payment. With three teenagers at home, I just wouldnt have that much extra for such a large payment.

Rob

I think that's the point of the Money magazine article (again, I don't remember if it was Money magazine I read it or some other publication): if you have to make major life changes to afford the monthly payment on a 3-year car loan, then you can't afford the car. (Sure, you might be able to make the monthly payments, but you'd have to sacrifice potentially important things in life to do it, like saving for retirement, children's education, etc.).

Likewise, according to the same article, if you have to stretch to a 4-year or 5-year loan in order to "afford" the monthly payments, then, technically, the car is too rich for you.

That's not to say that there shouldn't be any 4- or 5-year loan options for people who want to do it that way....just that financial experts say that when looking for a new car, ask yourself if you could pay it off in three years without having to sacrifice/delay one or more of the critical things in life (food, shelter, clothing, education, retirement). If the answer is yes, then take whatever loan terms you want.

In a way, it's kind of like interest-only mortgages. If you see a property you like but can only afford it by taking out an interest-only mortgage, then the it's just too expensive for you.

I'm not trying to lecture anyone or give out financial advice here. It's just that in this thread (HSE vs. LUX), I've noticed one or two folks (or more) who seemed to be defensive about having opted for the HSE, saying that it wasn't a money issue over the LUX, but then later reveal that, oh yeah, I didn't actually buy it, I leased it, and oh yeah, leasing saved me about $80 over my current car payment, etc., etc. "De Nile" ain't just a river in Egypt, folks.

LRnewbie11
06-02-2011, 04:49 PM
I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare vehicle purchases to interest only mortgages. Additionally I don't believe I was getting defensive about anything let alone not getting the LUX. In fact I think I said it WAS a money issue in that I got a good deal on a lease. I also don't think I made this a discussion about lease vs. buy.

So, thank you for blessing us with your review of an article you read in Money magazine. Can we get back to things that are more pertinent to the vehicle? That would be just fantastic.

UGAgirl97
06-02-2011, 05:01 PM
I think that's the point of the Money magazine article (again, I don't remember if it was Money magazine I read it or some other publication): if you have to make major life changes to afford the monthly payment on a 3-year car loan, then you can't afford the car. (Sure, you might be able to make the monthly payments, but you'd have to sacrifice potentially important things in life to do it, like saving for retirement, children's education, etc.).

Likewise, according to the same article, if you have to stretch to a 4-year or 5-year loan in order to "afford" the monthly payments, then, technically, the car is too rich for you.

That's not to say that there shouldn't be any 4- or 5-year loan options for people who want to do it that way....just that financial experts say that when looking for a new car, ask yourself if you could pay it off in three years without having to sacrifice/delay one or more of the critical things in life (food, shelter, clothing, education, retirement). If the answer is yes, then take whatever loan terms you want.

In a way, it's kind of like interest-only mortgages. If you see a property you like but can only afford it by taking out an interest-only mortgage, then the it's just too expensive for you.

I'm not trying to lecture anyone or give out financial advice here. It's just that in this thread (HSE vs. LUX), I've noticed one or two folks (or more) who seemed to be defensive about having opted for the HSE, saying that it wasn't a money issue over the LUX, but then later reveal that, oh yeah, I didn't actually buy it, I leased it, and oh yeah, leasing saved me about $80 over my current car payment, etc., etc. "De Nile" ain't just a river in Egypt, folks.

Oh....brother.....Make this end....

Original poster, bless your heart.... all you asked was people's opinion's of the LR4 they chose and 6 pages later, you know all about what you personally can afford or SHOULD be able to afford and how most of us are probably living on food stamps because we have a 5 year note and bought or leased an HSE over a LUX. If you got anything useful out of any of this, you got lucky.

You will know exactly the car you want and you will pay for it exactly how you want and you will be just as thrilled as we are with our LR4s....LUX or not.

Keep us posted....just start another thread so this one will die ...LOL:proud:

Count Laszlo
06-02-2011, 08:11 PM
I saw lease offers in Los Angeles LR4 for $599 a month. I'm assuming this is backed by LR and other dealerships would offer the same. That's an amazing lease offer for a LR4 IMO.

LRnewbie11
06-02-2011, 08:17 PM
I saw lease offers in Los Angeles LR4 for $599 a month. I'm assuming this is backed by LR and other dealerships would offer the same. That's an amazing lease offer for a LR4 IMO.

That sounds awfully familiar.....:biggrin:

Count Laszlo
06-02-2011, 08:46 PM
That sounds awfully familiar.....:biggrin:

I'm sorry, did someone (you?) already post that? I just saw the ad yesterday and probably should have read this thread where I left off earlier this week. This tread has become pretty entertaining.

LRnewbie11
06-02-2011, 10:00 PM
I'm sorry, did someone (you?) already post that? I just saw the ad yesterday and probably should have read this thread where I left off earlier this week. This tread has become pretty entertaining.

No, no. I didn't post it but I'm very familiar with that deal. My dealer had that going on in April... right around the time I took advantage of it!!

gfcronus
06-02-2011, 10:01 PM
I'm sorry, did someone (you?) already post that? I just saw the ad yesterday and probably should have read this thread where I left off earlier this week. This tread has become pretty entertaining.

No, it means that's the price LRNewbie paid for his LR4.

uhur
06-02-2011, 10:11 PM
I saw lease offers in Los Angeles LR4 for $599 a month. I'm assuming this is backed by LR and other dealerships would offer the same. That's an amazing lease offer for a LR4 IMO.


This is a low-mileage lease with sizeable upfront payment/lcap cost reduction on a pretty basic HSE model...tax, dealer fees not included...nothing special at all

uhur
06-02-2011, 10:15 PM
The $599/m lease quoted above is a low mileage lease with significant down payment/cap cost reduction required upfront, doesn't include tax/dealer fees and is based on a pretty basic HSE model (@ $54,500 MSRP)...
...nothing special at all, actually

uhur
06-02-2011, 11:07 PM
The $599/m lease is low mileage, doesn't include tax, fees etc and requires a high down payment/cap cost reduction, with an average money factor, on a rather basic HSE model (@ $54,500, or so, MSRP)
...Pass...

gfcronus
06-02-2011, 11:23 PM
The $599/m lease is low mileage, doesn't include tax, fees etc and requires a high down payment/cap cost reduction, with an average money factor, on a rather basic HSE model (@ $54,500, or so, MSRP)
...Pass...

Which probably translates into about, what, $30,000 or so over the three years of the lease? For a car you can probably drive only 10,000 miles per year? Maybe 12,000 miles at best? So at the end of three years, you're $30,000 poorer on a car you couldn't drive that much and have nothing to show for it in the end? No wonder car dealerships love leases.

Reminds me what they say about lotteries: that they are a tax on people who are bad at math

uhur
06-02-2011, 11:52 PM
Well,
when I chose the model/equipment I liked with minimum cash out of pocket, bumped the mileage to 15K per year, the $599/m turned into 850, or so...
That said, leasing is just fine, and depends on individual life circumstances, finances, car ownership patterns etc.
...when leasing, one has to know all the "ins and out" very well, because it is a lot easier to be taken for a ride (i.e. allow the dealer to make "too much" profit, front and end).
Back to HSE vs LUX debate, yes indeed, one could lease an HSE for $599/m (sort of) with all the parameters met

eastLR4
06-03-2011, 12:04 AM
I think that's the point of the Money magazine article (again, I don't remember if it was Money magazine I read it or some other publication): if you have to make major life changes to afford the monthly payment on a 3-year car loan, then you can't afford the car. (Sure, you might be able to make the monthly payments, but you'd have to sacrifice potentially important things in life to do it, like saving for retirement, children's education, etc.).

Likewise, according to the same article, if you have to stretch to a 4-year or 5-year loan in order to "afford" the monthly payments, then, technically, the car is too rich for you.

That's not to say that there shouldn't be any 4- or 5-year loan options for people who want to do it that way....just that financial experts say that when looking for a new car, ask yourself if you could pay it off in three years without having to sacrifice/delay one or more of the critical things in life (food, shelter, clothing, education, retirement). If the answer is yes, then take whatever loan terms you want.

In a way, it's kind of like interest-only mortgages. If you see a property you like but can only afford it by taking out an interest-only mortgage, then the it's just too expensive for you.

I'm not trying to lecture anyone or give out financial advice here. It's just that in this thread (HSE vs. LUX), I've noticed one or two folks (or more) who seemed to be defensive about having opted for the HSE, saying that it wasn't a money issue over the LUX, but then later reveal that, oh yeah, I didn't actually buy it, I leased it, and oh yeah, leasing saved me about $80 over my current car payment, etc., etc. "De Nile" ain't just a river in Egypt, folks.

There's nothing wrong with leasing. If you want something hassle free it pays to lease - literally. It does "cost more" but you get something for that extra price: the simplicity of knowing "I'm getting out of this car at this set price after X months and getting in a new car".

Same as renting an apartment right? It doesn't always make sense to buy.

(Although I will buy the LR4, with a 5 year loan)

See, to counter your example, I took a 60 month loan for my Nismo 350Z. I ended up paying it off fully in 3.5 years. I could have afforded a 36 months loan but went "safer" (longer loan) so I had extra savings left over. I paid more interest than I had to but that interest was not paid for nothing. It gave me room to save in case of ... whatever.



Bottom line, there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to other peoples money.

UGAgirl97
06-03-2011, 12:37 AM
Bottom line, there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to other peoples money.[/QUOTE]

Amen!! Beautifully put EastLR4..... Welcome to the forum! You will love this truck! Be sure to post pics when you get it!!

eastLR4
06-03-2011, 12:55 AM
Bottom line, there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to other peoples money.

Amen!! Beautifully put EastLR4..... Welcome to the forum! You will love this truck! Be sure to post pics when you get it!![/QUOTE]

Oh, I will. Buying a home now and close at the end of July. My credit shall remain untouched while the mortgage company completes their due diligence.

Will buy the truck shortly after I close on my new home, and I'll have plenty of pics to show for it.

I was thinking about going into the dealership asking for something other than what I really want. I figure if they know what I'd like (white on black) they'll keep that particular color combo at the highest price and I'd be at a disadvantage? I will have to work on my negotiation skills.

uhur
06-03-2011, 01:05 AM
[QUOTE=eastLR4;115706

I was thinking about going into the dealership asking for something other than what I really want. I figure if they know what I'd like (white on black) they'll keep that particular color combo at the highest price and I'd be at a disadvantage? I will have to work on my negotiation skills.[/QUOTE]

Be classy, upfront and honest with your LR dealer, and they'll become your friends.
Jerking them around is never a good idea(..dunno about Nissan negotiating strategies, never owned one)

LRnewbie11
06-03-2011, 09:01 AM
thats where the negotiations come in. I wont go into the details specificallly but I was able to negotiate a lot more than what they were advertising in the deal. Its no different than negotiating for a purchase.

LRnewbie11
06-03-2011, 09:23 AM
Which probably translates into about, what, $30,000 or so over the three years of the lease? For a car you can probably drive only 10,000 miles per year? Maybe 12,000 miles at best? So at the end of three years, you're $30,000 poorer on a car you couldn't drive that much and have nothing to show for it in the end? No wonder car dealerships love leases.

Reminds me what they say about lotteries: that they are a tax on people who are bad at math

you dont have anything to show for it other than......wait for it......wakt for it oh yeah anlther new car ay the end of your lease. I think we have established ad naseum that there are pros and cons to both leasing and buying. So, do we need to continue this nonsense or maybe gfcronus would like to dive into everyone's personal finances As well and tell us where we got it wrong. I mean why stop at the vehicle transaction. Im sure he's got some more pearls of wisdom he has gleaned from a fancy elitist financial periodical. (thats a magazine for you idiots out there...dont worry he puts me in that group too)

horatio8
06-04-2011, 11:40 AM
For those who bought or financed their LR4, I would guess the resale value (residual) would be higher for a Lux. I especially think the memory seats and keyless entry would be attractive to buyers down the road. The resale value has to be considered to get a total cost of ownership. I would've preferred to lease, but the low residual made the lease terms pretty crappy. It's not like 5-6 years ago when manufacturers subsidized leases, only to get crushed on the turn-in (although it seems like BMW still offers aggressive leases). Next in my order of preference would be to pay cash, but the 0.9% financing was too good an offer to refuse. I think the lease vs. finance vs. cash argument is a combination of preferences and crunching the numbers - none of the choices is inherently bad. I went for a 2010 Lux Plus (everything but towing) as I like to go for the best loaded car I can get that fits in my budget. My wife is the complete opposite, she'll go for the base model, as she would rather get the best car and doesn't care about options. So I understand both viewpoints, it really is a personal preference. I know that I've used, and enjoyed all of the options in the Lux package. The only thing I could've lived without is the surround cameras, but getting the package gave me a better backup camera, which is extremely useful. I've enjoyed this entire thread and don't think any posts have had an unhelpful tone.

Appreciate_LR
06-05-2011, 01:48 PM
New to this forum, and doing some research before purchasing. I appreciate the comments on the HSE vs LUX as general education. Thanks for that. This will be my first LR, at least to drive myself. My son’s 16th birthday car was a Discovery 2. After a friend totaled that one for him 2 years ago (an interesting learning experience for us all) I bought a slightly used ’06 LR3 for him. We have had a wonderful experience with both cars (well, except for the totaled part). My intention is to buy an LR4 and drive it a couple years before handing it over to him, so I’ll need to purchase it rather than leasing.

I have a leasing experience that might present itself again for some of you, so I thought I would share...

I ordered an ’05 VW Phaeton, which is a wonderful car, but was not long for the US market. VW wouldn’t discount the price of a newly introduced model for a number of PR reasons, but to move cars they offered some smokin’ lease rates. They calculated the lease assuming a full MSRP purchase, but then assumed the car was worth 65% of MSRP after 3 years, or 60% of MSRP after 4! I ordered it as an outright purchase, but changed to the lease while waiting for it to be delivered. It was certainly worth looking at the numbers.

In hindsight, leasing paid dividends. The car was pulled from the US market, and the resale price plummeted. A purchase would have proven to be very expensive.

EIGHTLUG
06-06-2011, 09:25 PM
You should never look at the vehicle you drive, that's registered to you, for your explicit use, that you pay for monthly as an asset or an investment. It's hands down, a LIABILITY, period end of story. We, ourselves haven't leased a vehicle, but it's a great option. We buy our vehicles with a certificate loan. Best way to do it if it's possible for you. But going into that is another topic all together.

The great thing about a lease is that you never own the vehicle. If you were to run your finances as a company would, it's easier to understand. Making payments on a $60k vehicle that, for the majority of it's life, sits in your garage, does NOTHING for your net worth. It's 100% a liability. You pay to use it, you pay for it when it's not being used. It does nothing but COST YOU MONEY. Why own it? At the end of your 36/48/60 months of payments you will now have spent $65K, or so, on a vehicle that is now worth half that... and still depreciating.You will not win that battle of attrition. You will never get your money back.

So why not pay the minimum of what it costs to USE the vehicle? Makes total sense. You can off road it, never pay for repairs since it will ALWAYS be under warranty, basically enjoy everything great about owning the same vehicle without owning it. Depreciation is none of your concern. In 2 or 3 years you bring it back to the dealer and start fresh. Typically the same payment, same terms, BRAND NEW vehicle. Where's the drawback? Meanwhile the "other guy" has a three year old LR4 with 30K+ miles on it that's now worth $35K with the same $700.00 mo/payment.

horatio8
06-06-2011, 10:03 PM
You should never look at the vehicle you drive, that's registered to you, for your explicit use, that you pay for monthly as an asset or an investment. It's hands down, a LIABILITY, period end of story. We, ourselves haven't leased a vehicle, but it's a great option. We buy our vehicles with a certificate loan. Best way to do it if it's possible for you. But going into that is another topic all together.

The great thing about a lease is that you never own the vehicle. If you were to run your finances as a company would, it's easier to understand. Making payments on a $60k vehicle that, for the majority of it's life, sits in your garage, does NOTHING for your net worth. It's 100% a liability. You pay to use it, you pay for it when it's not being used. It does nothing but COST YOU MONEY. Why own it? At the end of your 36/48/60 months of payments you will now have spent $65K, or so, on a vehicle that is now worth half that... and still depreciating.You will not win that battle of attrition. You will never get your money back.

So why not pay the minimum of what it costs to USE the vehicle? Makes total sense. You can off road it, never pay for repairs since it will ALWAYS be under warranty, basically enjoy everything great about owning the same vehicle without owning it. Depreciation is none of your concern. In 2 or 3 years you bring it back to the dealer and start fresh. Typically the same payment, same terms, BRAND NEW vehicle. Where's the drawback? Meanwhile the "other guy" has a three year old LR4 with 30K+ miles on it that's now worth $35K with the same $700.00 mo/payment.

I agree with many of your points, as it is also my preference to lease. However, you still have to crunch the numbers to decide between your options. A lease with a high residual and a low money factor makes sense, but Land Rover's low residuals (in the 40s) and mediocre rates made it a lousy choice vs. buying or 0.9% financing. The drawback in your example is that you might end up paying too much for the lease vs. buying the car and selling it when you're done. You are paying for depreciation when you lease, that's why the residual is lower for 36 months vs. 24 months. Again, I prefer to lease, but Land Rover makes it tough. I'll stop here, so as not to get too in depth, or off-topic.

uhur
06-06-2011, 10:34 PM
You should never look at the vehicle you drive, that's registered to you, for your explicit use, that you pay for monthly as an asset or an investment. It's hands down, a LIABILITY, period end of story. We, ourselves haven't leased a vehicle, but it's a great option. We buy our vehicles with a certificate loan. Best way to do it if it's possible for you. But going into that is another topic all together.

The great thing about a lease is that you never own the vehicle. If you were to run your finances as a company would, it's easier to understand. Making payments on a $60k vehicle that, for the majority of it's life, sits in your garage, does NOTHING for your net worth. It's 100% a liability. You pay to use it, you pay for it when it's not being used. It does nothing but COST YOU MONEY. Why own it? At the end of your 36/48/60 months of payments you will now have spent $65K, or so, on a vehicle that is now worth half that... and still depreciating.You will not win that battle of attrition. You will never get your money back.

So why not pay the minimum of what it costs to USE the vehicle? Makes total sense. You can off road it, never pay for repairs since it will ALWAYS be under warranty, basically enjoy everything great about owning the same vehicle without owning it. Depreciation is none of your concern. In 2 or 3 years you bring it back to the dealer and start fresh. Typically the same payment, same terms, BRAND NEW vehicle. Where's the drawback? Meanwhile the "other guy" has a three year old LR4 with 30K+ miles on it that's now worth $35K with the same $700.00 mo/payment.

It is a myth that leasing is always cheaper than financing. It could be, but only if it is subsidized by the lending bank, i.e. cheap money, and artificially inflated residuals. The trouble is that it almost never happens these days, as the banks got burned doing it in the past. Those days are over (with very few exceptions, and LR isn't one of them)

One the other hand, when financing rates are subsidized, it becomes a better proposition: no need to worry about mileage, easier to get out before the term is up, no need to worry about highly nebulous "wear and tear", no disposition fees etc

EIGHTLUG
06-06-2011, 10:45 PM
I never said it was cheaper. How and what you negotiate in your deal for your specific vehicle is up to you. How good are your negotiating skills? Simply put, you are purchasing debt and liability in one instance and the right to use a vehicle for a set amount of time and distance in another. Putting pen to paper to assume long term debt, money loss, and liability has no financial positives, no matter how you want to spin it.

EIGHTLUG
06-06-2011, 11:06 PM
Back on topic...

Get the vehicle you want with the options you want. You're going to have to spend the money. May as well spend it on what makes you happiest. If the HSE can fill that bill and you will never put a lusty eye on the LUX at the other end of the parking lot, get the HSE with the options you desire. Paying for something and always feeling that you wish you had more sucks. Especially at 7, 8, $900.00 a whack.

gfcronus
06-07-2011, 11:55 AM
You should never look at the vehicle you drive, that's registered to you, for your explicit use, that you pay for monthly as an asset or an investment. It's hands down, a LIABILITY, period end of story. We, ourselves haven't leased a vehicle, but it's a great option. We buy our vehicles with a certificate loan. Best way to do it if it's possible for you. But going into that is another topic all together.

The great thing about a lease is that you never own the vehicle. If you were to run your finances as a company would, it's easier to understand. Making payments on a $60k vehicle that, for the majority of it's life, sits in your garage, does NOTHING for your net worth. It's 100% a liability. You pay to use it, you pay for it when it's not being used. It does nothing but COST YOU MONEY. Why own it? At the end of your 36/48/60 months of payments you will now have spent $65K, or so, on a vehicle that is now worth half that... and still depreciating.You will not win that battle of attrition. You will never get your money back.

So why not pay the minimum of what it costs to USE the vehicle? Makes total sense. You can off road it, never pay for repairs since it will ALWAYS be under warranty, basically enjoy everything great about owning the same vehicle without owning it. Depreciation is none of your concern. In 2 or 3 years you bring it back to the dealer and start fresh. Typically the same payment, same terms, BRAND NEW vehicle. Where's the drawback? Meanwhile the "other guy" has a three year old LR4 with 30K+ miles on it that's now worth $35K with the same $700.00 mo/payment.

I agree with you that a car shouldn't be considered an asset, but to use that point to rationalize leasing over purchasing is pretty silly.

I own and still regularly drive a 2000 BMW 528i, which I purchased for $40-something-thousand dollars and paid off in 48 months (i.e., in 2004). So for the last seven years I have not had a $700-800 car payment. That means that, for the last seven years, I have been able to put those dollars elsewhere, something you can't do when you perpetually lease. And the car has been fantastically reliable. Other than regular service calls and tire changes, it has probably been in the shop for unexpected problems 3 or 4 times, totaling $6,000-7,000 in repairs. What's more, if I want to sell it, Kelly Blue Book indicates that I can probably get $5,000 or so in a private sale, which I can turn around and use as a down payment on a future car. All in all, while the car is not an "asset" per se, it has been money well spent.

Had I leased over the last 11 years, I would be out more than $110,000 versus the $45,000-50,000 I am with the Bimmer. Ok, I'd have a new vehcile every 3-4 years, but again, I'd be $60,000+ poorer. Is the new vehicle smell every 3-4 years worth that kind of money over an 11-year period?

EIGHTLUG
06-07-2011, 11:01 PM
I agree with you that a car shouldn't be considered an asset, but to use that point to rationalize leasing over purchasing is pretty silly.

I own and still regularly drive a 2000 BMW 528i, which I purchased for $40-something-thousand dollars and paid off in 48 months (i.e., in 2004). So for the last seven years I have not had a $700-800 car payment. That means that, for the last seven years, I have been able to put those dollars elsewhere, something you can't do when you perpetually lease. And the car has been fantastically reliable. Other than regular service calls and tire changes, it has probably been in the shop for unexpected problems 3 or 4 times, totaling $6,000-7,000 in repairs. What's more, if I want to sell it, Kelly Blue Book indicates that I can probably get $5,000 or so in a private sale, which I can turn around and use as a down payment on a future car. All in all, while the car is not an "asset" per se, it has been money well spent.



So you've spent 50K+ on something that, to your own admission, is only worth $5,000, at best. So where does it end? Why not keep it ten more years? I'll tell you why. It's not getting any newer. You have to admit that you've been pretty lucky, as far as the reliability of that BMW. Others are rarely that lucky. That's one of the reasons that luxury vehicles tank in value after five to six years. So yeah, owning one out of warranty for an extended period is a gamble. True it gets cheaper to "own" since you're not paying back the loan but the cost of repairs on the horizon loom large. To each his own.

uhur
06-08-2011, 12:03 AM
The author of the above post who promotes leasing fails to understand that current residuals (non-negotiable) are extremely conservative and appear to play safe re: the anticipated market value of a leased car when the lease is over. Simply put, residuals are undervalued, as the banks are not willing to take risks. In addition, buy money factors (aka interest rate) are very high in comparison to financing rates available for people with exceptional credit. Compute additional acqusition/disposition fees, mileage/wear and tear penalties in the equation, and it becomes clear that lending institutions are not very interested in leasing vehicles, as they do not provide financial incentives to customers to do so. Exceptions: current BMW programs, and some Mercedes models...maybe, Jags (because they can't sell them)
True though, a high-line luxury car must be disposed of, one way or another, when the warranty is up, as the cost of ownership tends to sky-rocket. If one plansto keep it long-term, get an extended warranty

Count Laszlo
06-08-2011, 01:00 AM
We should just get cars for free. Do you think Obama can work out a deal like that for re-election?

Ike1488
09-05-2011, 12:31 AM
I picked up the ipod cable for my 2011 LR4 last week--part # lr019691 and it destroyed 2 i-phones. The i3s became very hot and just burnt out. Anyone else have this experience or have any suggestions?

baobay
09-05-2011, 05:45 AM
I picked up the ipod cable for my 2011 LR4 last week--part # lr019691 and it destroyed 2 i-phones. The i3s became very hot and just burnt out. Anyone else have this experience or have any suggestions?

Been using the cable with my 3GS and my wife's 3G for over a year now with no issues. Something going on with the connection, or maybe even the setup in the LR4. I would have dealer Take a look ASAP.