Overland Expo, Tim Scully and Multipoint Winch "Cradle"s

cperez said:

Great trip- and mini-trail reports, Dan! I would love to hear some bullet points on the tips that Tim gave you for mud/ruts and other pointers.

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OK. Here goes. Most people already know all these - but they were new to me:

• First, a reminder that the center portion of our LR4s is 2 inches higher than the rated ground clearance. which is they they suggest taking rocks "down the middle".
• Tim encouraged me to freely use the Terrain Modes. And to understand how they work. The 4x4 screens in the display have information on what each terrain mode does. But it is even better to get a feel for each one.
• Turning off DSC can help in some Terrain Modes. DSC significantly reduces the responsiveness of the throttle. This became clear when I was becoming bogged down in the mud and needed to maintain my speed. I was in Mud/Ruts but still had DSC on and when I tried to accelerate to keep my speed up the throttle didn't respond as I needed it to. Tim quickly disabled DSC and the throttle control came back.
• As for mud, I had to learn to back of the throttle when heading into a turn while in muddy ruts. The truck wanted to push through the outsides of the soft, muddy ruts. Backing off the throttle let the weight of the vehicle surge forward a bit putting weight onto the front wheels while not applying torque. The wheels began to regain their turning and then I could gently reapply some throttle eventually gaining enough momentum to carry on through the mud. Sort of a feel thing but it really worked.
• Regarding the fact that the rear wheels track inside of the front wheel when turning, Tim suggesting using the B-pillar as the "pivot point". In other words, once the obstacle you want to turn around becomes visible in the 2nd row window (past the B-Pillar) you can begin your turn and the rear wheels will miss the obstacle.
• Approach shelfs and crossing cracks in the rock at an angle. Everyone probably knows this. But I had not realized how much better the approach angle is for the front wheels when you approach at an angle. Tim simply had me turn the wheels about 30-45 degrees then get out of the vehicle and look at the wheel. Duh!
• On that topic, he showed me how I can use the side view cameras to actually watch the front wheel - even to the point of being able to place the front wheel on a rock. Someone else on this forum had suggested using the cameras this way but it took doing it to see how it works.
• Tim uses low range a LOT. If under 30 and on any sort of up/down and/or rough terrain he uses 4L.
• Learning how to use the Cruise Control buttons to control Hill Descent Control speed. If you are in first gear it will start out at 1.8 MPH (I think) and you can adjust it up or down by 0.3 MPH increments using the Cruise Control up/down buttons. If you are in 2-4 gear then it starts out at 4 MPH.
• He reminded me to go slow, sometimes very slow, over obstacles. He called it "expedition mode" thinking. In other words, you need to protect your vehicle as if on an expedition where a vehicle breakdown can be a huge issue. Trust the vehicle's capabilities but don't beat it up when you don't need to.

There were a number of other things about the vehicle that I had not explored before such as using the Track and Route features of the Off-Road Nav to record where you have been and record a route. Using scroll mode to place the Nav system map where you want.

cperez said:

The winch solution sounds interesting not only for flexibility and utility in actual use, but also for mounting only as needed. The obvious question is strength but I'm guessing they thought that through!

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I like the potential utility of this approach as well. I can easily see times when I would want a winch on the rear.

cperez said:

Had been looking forward to your report especially after seeing the article about LR closing down the course because it was "too muddy". Must've been a real slopfest.

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It was definitely too muddy. Very bad. The first morning was a disaster because everyone was simply getting stuck, needing to be winched out, which made it impossible for everyone to get through. It did not get any better. The course was open to other vehicles so that was part of the problem.

Lgibson said:

Did Scully say anything about tire pressures? Any airing-down required on your Moab canyons?

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Yes. I forgot to mention. He suggested going no lower than 20. Airing down is good, he said. Just keep it between 20-25 with these vehicles. Or course that can vary somewhat by tire.

BTW, there were plenty of Jeeps and Toyotas and various trucks at the Expo. Then there were a few of these and even larger!

Also, I had a chat with Bob Burns (one of the LRNA folks in the 2010 video they did on their LR experience trip in Telluride and Ouray). I tried to coax some info on the coming Discovery vehicle. He said he could tell me but then he would have to **** me and bury the body which would have been pretty easy in all that mud!

In conversations with Bob and the other LR folks (I spent a fair bit of time hanging around the booth) they all commented on how well the LR4 has done the past couple of years - exceeding expectations. They took some pride in helping it finally get traction in the market.

WOW! Thank you so much for this detailed post!!! Dan, you really did a great job detailing everything you learned and it was very helpful. Than you again!!!

Great pics Dan and thanks for the write up!!

Trace and Route in Offroad Nav Mode

Surfrider77 said:

Fantastic writeup Dan!

Can you please elaborate on this Track and Route feature? I am often driving through the deserts here and could never figure out how to plot my route in one direction so I can follow it out.

There is a setting that leaves what I call "breadcrumbs" (little dots on the screen) where you have traveled, but I can not for the life of me figure out how to save those routes!


Any help on this would be hugely appreciated!!

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So I played with this a bit this afternoon to make sure I understand how it works. All of the comments below assume you are in the Offroad Nav screen which you get to by being in the main Nav screen then hitting the Nav hard button again which gives use the option to swap modes.

I don't see a way that you can Trace (that is how you leave breadcrumbs) and then use the navigation/guidance function to follow those breadcrumbs back. You can of course see the breadcrumbs but you would need to be checking the nav screen regularly to see if you are still on the breadcrumbs. And you can't "save" the breadcrumbs as a route.

If you want to save a Route, your press the New Route button. This button will change and display the number 1 in a circle. At the bottom of the screen you will see an OK button. Don't touch that until you are done driving your "route". When creating a new route you can also have it tracing as that will give you visual clues when returning.

But the key thing is to save waypoints along your route. Whenever there is a Y or if there is a significant change in direction press the button that originally said New Route and now has become a number. Every time you press that button it will save a waypoint for the route and display it on the map and the button will increment.

After you have driven as far as you want click the OK button at the bottom of the screen and it will save the route.

When you save a route it will ask you if you want to open it or something like that. You can if you want or you can wait and load it later.

If you choose to do it later it is easy. Lets say you get back in the vehicle after doing whatever you do at your destinations. Camel races or whatever. ;-) Now you want to follow the same route back.

Get back into the Offroad Nav Screen/Mode. Press the Nav Menu button on the screen. (It will look very different than the On Road Nav menu.)

You should have a button for Load Route. The press on the route you want to load. (They are named by date/time). When it loads you will be given the options of Forward or Backward. These allow you follow the route in the recorded direction or in reverse. I think there is also a Start button which will give you a bearing to the Start.

No here is the difference between On Road and Off Road. The directions are given in bearings to the next Waypoint. So if you didn't save any waypoints you will simply get a green line from the Start to the End (or End to Start). The green line will not follow the trace points although you can see them. Saving waypoints more often may help keep you on track. If you're simply making a straight shot across the desert and only need a bearing to the next waypoint then you should be good.

And you can even get Voice Guidance! As you pass each waypoint, Lara will tell your the bearing to the next waypoint and how far it is (as the crow flies.)

You also have options to edit routes (probably add/delete waypoints but I haven't played with this.)

Routes appear to be saved indefinitely.

So the key to saving a route for return is the use of Waypoints as the Trace marks are just there for visual cues.

You do need to make sure that you have turned on the display of trace points. When you press the Trace button you will get a menu that lists sets of traces. I have only seen an item in the list for "Current...". Make sure this is "orange" or enabled by pressing it. I am guessing that having additional sets of trace points happens when you create a new route with Tracing enabled but I haven't tried that.

There are likely other options but that should be enough to get your started so you can then play around.

Finlayforprez said:

WOW! Thank you so much for this detailed post!!! Dan, you really did a great job detailing everything you learned and it was very helpful. Than you again!!!

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A couple more just came to mind, Dave, though I expect you know this stuff.

When it comes to tire placement I am really bad. (You know when you pull into a car wash where it wants your left tire to go in between two pipes as guides. I'm about 50-50 on this obstacle! So Tim pointed out that when you look at the hood of the LR4 and you see the bevel (I can't think what word to use for this) that runs down each side of the hood about a foot in. The lower "crease" in each of those aligns with the inside edge of the tire. Good to know.

Tim also pointed out that the front bumper extends in front of the leading visual edge of the hood by about the width of 2 fists or the length from your fingertips to your wrist.

And though Tim didn't tell me this I have found that with my seating position I can see what will pass under the center of the vehicle if my line of sight aligns with the windshield washer nozzle. If I want the right tire to roll over something I generally align my sight with the center of the front of the hood. I'm sure you all have other visual cues.

Tim also suggested that I use my left foot to keep a slight pressure on the brake when going through somewhat nearly stuff. It smooths things out a bit. Rock Crawl and HDC do some of this anyway.

Sorry for the random thoughts. Some of this is just coming back to me.

cperez said:

The winch solution sounds interesting not only for flexibility and utility in actual use, but also for mounting only as needed. The obvious question is strength but I'm guessing they thought that through!

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So here are some pics of the multipoint winch thing with a tow hitch receiver that Tim fabricated for an RRS.

Dan, all of these informational downloads you're sharing are like a basket full of green oval Easter eggs. A real service to the forum, thanks!