What's with JLR?/Defender rant

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BrandonM7

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Have you seen JLR sales numbers from the past few years? Of course they're doing new things instead of passification of previous owners and heritage. Us previous owners aren't paying the bills - they're so far in the hole they have no choice but to try things that will dump us in hopes that they'll grab a bunch of Audi/MB/Lexus/GM/whatever buyers. They're swirling in the bowl and trying to catch any hope of a life line they can. It's a lot like a Seinfeld episode - remember when George realized that everything was going wrong, so he started doing the opposite of his instincts and things started being great? That's JLR right now.


I love my Land Rover and my wife loves her Range Rover Sport...but I am not married to this brand. I've been wanting to do more research on the capability of the G-Wagon but loving my LR has kept me from flirting with the MB. Maybe a failed Defender will push me to actually test drive a used G_wag...that's the silver lining in my book.

Same here - LR4 here and the wife drives an RRS. I could definitely see her moving to a Velar, but I don't see much for me. And the new Volvo XC90 is **** as hell, she might go that way instead of Velar. I'd love a supercharged RRS, but I assume JLR will **** on its appeal soon because it seems they're determined to crap on their coolest models. I figure I'll end up back in a really nice 1/2-ton pickup, because it seems my diversion into LR came right about the time they were phasing out the vehicles that appeal to me.
 

backcountryLR4

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Same here - LR4 here and the wife drives an RRS. I could definitely see her moving to a Velar, but I don't see much for me. And the new Volvo XC90 is **** as hell, she might go that way instead of Velar. I'd love a supercharged RRS, but I assume JLR will **** on its appeal soon because it seems they're determined to crap on their coolest models. I figure I'll end up back in a really nice 1/2-ton pickup, because it seems my diversion into LR came right about the time they were phasing out the vehicles that appeal to me.


Well, if I had a bigger garage, I would probably be driving a new Raptor right now instead of a Land Rover...

I might never sell the LR4, because I get an emotional attachment to cars. It's just unique compared to everything else out there and still holds on to the heritage that I have always appreciated.

It will tow whatever other toys I want to get as a single feller with the option of making it into a mini luxury camper. Life can always change, but the landy can make a good small family hauler, so that is another reason to me why I will definitely be keeping it for a long time.

I am eager to see what the new Defender will be like. Depending on what it has to offer, I feel like that would be the only thing that could cause me to sell/trade-in the LR4.
 

bbyer

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The link below is to the 2019 Ford Ranger Raptor.

I suspect the "new" Defender will be a variation of the Ranger.

What annoys me the most is LR already has a "new" Defender - the commercial version of our D3/LR3 - coil springs, work like interior, and for engines, either the simple non charged Ford petrol V6, the Jag 4.4l V8 or one of the existing LR diesels - for the most part, they are reliable now.

Land Rover could maintain volume with their cars and still have a real Land Rover to compete with the G Wagon.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-ford-ranger-raptor-spy-photos-news
 

BrandonM7

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https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictures/2019-ford-ranger-ford-returns-to-midsize-pickup-truck-fight/

Granted it is not the Raptor version but I hate the front and the interior. Way too car like.

I kind of like it with the FX4 nose, but definitely not the others I've seen pics of. Midsize trucks have all of the drawbacks of a 1/2-ton with none of the benefits, though. My most recent vehicles were a Ram 1500, then a Tacoma for five years, then a KR F150 for five years, then the LR4. The Tacoma was a hoot and a half to drive (2005 extended cab 4WD TRD Sport with a 6-speed manual - was actually sporty for a truck, could jump railroad tracks like a dang ATV, and could hang the tail out any time I wanted to pretend I was Jeremy Clarkson) but the gas mileage wasn't any better than the F150, towing wasn't nearly as graceful, bed was WAY smaller, much lower real-world payload, interior was tight, and it wasn't really all that much cheaper. A Lariat Ranger FX4 will be way up in the 40s new I'll bet, and they cut so many incentives on F150 due to volume you could probably get one of those for the same price.

Sorry, I'm rambling. Bored insomniac.
 

backcountryLR4

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I kind of like it with the FX4 nose, but definitely not the others I've seen pics of. Midsize trucks have all of the drawbacks of a 1/2-ton with none of the benefits, though. My most recent vehicles were a Ram 1500, then a Tacoma for five years, then a KR F150 for five years, then the LR4. The Tacoma was a hoot and a half to drive (2005 extended cab 4WD TRD Sport with a 6-speed manual - was actually sporty for a truck, could jump railroad tracks like a dang ATV, and could hang the tail out any time I wanted to pretend I was Jeremy Clarkson) but the gas mileage wasn't any better than the F150, towing wasn't nearly as graceful, bed was WAY smaller, much lower real-world payload, interior was tight, and it wasn't really all that much cheaper. A Lariat Ranger FX4 will be way up in the 40s new I'll bet, and they cut so many incentives on F150 due to volume you could probably get one of those for the same price.

Sorry, I'm rambling. Bored insomniac.


So, when I decided to purchase a new vehicle I wanted something that could go-off road and tow.

  • Started looking at the F-150 Raptor (wouldn't fit in my garage)
  • looked at Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, but for near $50k new and a 3,600 lb towing capacity and the refinement of a plastic lego brick, I moved on
  • went to 2017 Tacoma TRD Pro (Parts and Service Dept manager said anything I did to the Tacoma would void my warranty(and only really wanted 17" 4-runner trdpro wheels and possibly a lift)) He lost a sale that day
  • since TRDpro was basically $45k, for only 10 more grand I could get an almost brand new CPO LR4 lux with another 79k miles left on the bumper to bumper manufacturers warranty and end up with something way more refined, super capable, and even more utilitarian for my needs. (my powder skis could barely, barely fit diagonally in the bed of the tacoma. They fit length wise in the back of the LR4 with the seats down. There is sooo much more useful space in the LR4, I love that it is a giant box. (skis couldn't fit in the bed of the raptor either...)

-another bored insomniac...
 

BrandonM7

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So, when I decided to purchase a new vehicle I wanted something that could go-off road and tow.

  • Started looking at the F-150 Raptor (wouldn't fit in my garage)
  • looked at Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, but for near $50k new and a 3,600 lb towing capacity and the refinement of a plastic lego brick, I moved on
  • went to 2017 Tacoma TRD Pro (Parts and Service Dept manager said anything I did to the Tacoma would void my warranty(and only really wanted 17" 4-runner trdpro wheels and possibly a lift)) He lost a sale that day
  • since TRDpro was basically $45k, for only 10 more grand I could get an almost brand new CPO LR4 lux with another 79k miles left on the bumper to bumper manufacturers warranty and end up with something way more refined, super capable, and even more utilitarian for my needs. (my powder skis could barely, barely fit diagonally in the bed of the tacoma. They fit length wise in the back of the LR4 with the seats down. There is sooo much more useful space in the LR4, I love that it is a giant box. (skis couldn't fit in the bed of the raptor either...)
-another bored insomniac...

One thing I really am impressed with is how much **** I can get in the LR4. I've fit very large pieces of furniture in it, we've taken it on weekend trips with other couples with the cargo area piled full of suitcases and golf clubs, etc. Surprising amount of room back there. I also very much like that a twin air mattress fits perfectly with the second row folded flat - awesome place to sleep instead of having to set up a tent.

I ended up with the LR4 because of my wife, really. She wanted a Range Rover Sport for YEARS. Finally saved up her money to get a very nice low-mile used one, and finally talked me into agreeing not to complain about her getting something I didn't have much experience working on or a good line for parts. That last bit was mostly because I did a bunch of research because I wanted to make her happy - found that JLR goes through waves of good and bad quality, and what she wanted was a pretty strong example of good. Plus quality issues and parts costs have gone up with domestic and even Japanese stuff over the past few years, so it's just as scary buying a relatively new Ford as it is a relatively new Range Rover Sport. She got it, and I fell in love. Deep love. So when it was time to replace my KR F150 and I was looking around at half ton trucks, I found myself peeking at LR4s...more and more...and eventually talked myself into it. I love it. I sure do wish the supercharged V8 were available, but that's about my only want. I don't off-road it because I have a pretty badass trailer queen (that will never win a beauty pageant,) but I tow with it a lot. It tows better than my F150 ever did by a long shot. It pulls that big **** through rutted dirt roads and muddy fields to get to the parks without breaking a sweat. Absolutely love it...and now they've crapped on me with the D5 before I even got indoctrinated.

I'm not the kind of person that believes I'll ride this thing until I die, even though I love it. I typically go 3-5 years per DD, buying a few years used (sweet spot of depreciation, varies by vehicle) and selling before depreciation hits that second steep drop to the toilet. I don't think I'll have more than another year-ish with the LR4 before it starts the steep decline again, so I'm already thinking about what comes next. I may go to a supercharged RRS next, but I hate to lose so much usable interior space. It's amazing how much less room there is inside her RRS, even though mechanically it's the same vehicle as my LR4. I'll probably end up with another dang F150, as much as I hate to have such a short run with Land Rover. I've actually been playing around with the idea of getting one of the imported and resto-modded Defender/MB G/Toyota FJ for a DD, but haven't talked myself into it just yet. I'm in my 40s now so something dumb and impractical for a DD would be okay and the resale on those basically never goes down, but I'd probably have to get a tow/haul truck alongside it. Not sure I could sell the wife on an additional vehicle since I already have three motorcycles, a wheeler, and a DD. Going to six vehicles might be a bit excessive, LOL.

Ramble ramble ramble...you'd think eventually just proofreading my own blabbing would make me sleepy.
 

Frank8

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Excessive number of vehicles?

Naaah. Vehicles are like shotguns-one can never have enough or too many!

Frank
 

jwest

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The G-Wagons are a love or hate them kind of deal. I love them, but they feel like you are driving an air traffic control tower.

The new G-Wagons have IFS, but it's not too big a deal as even the old solid front axle suspension was so stiff that there wasn't a whole lot of articulation/wheel travel. So much so that you could fit 35" tires on them without too many modifications.

Anyone thinking the G isn't very capable due to stiff suspension is missing the reality that it's highly modifiable just like any D90/110. Additionally if a person has a 'few' extra dollars, LeTech can fit portals to the G in addition to insanely capable offroad spec suspension parts.

A DIY guy can even simply order taller springs and dampers for the G and use 35's under full articulation. I like as much interior space so ideally I'd have a D110 sized G550 but that doesn't exist easily.

All of you like me who appreciate solid bones should consider a G someday. Once these new IFS G's start filtering in the leased G550 twin turbo models will be 30% discount from new $. Still expensive but in some ways still a great value if you are the type to enjoy a 20 yr ownership and love the versatile platform.

Even the 2008 G55 is a great choice with the slightly updated dash yet simple things like cable handbrake and simpler supercharged engine. I prefer the slightly newer modernized versions just after that though with ventilated seats ;)

If I wanted to buy a car for it's interior, I'd buy a LWB Range Rover AB or BMW M6 etc.
 

ryanjl

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I've actually been playing around with the idea of getting one of the imported and resto-modded Defender/MB G/Toyota FJ for a DD, but haven't talked myself into it just yet. I'm in my 40s now so something dumb and impractical for a DD would be okay and the resale on those basically never goes down, but I'd probably have to get a tow/haul truck alongside it. Not sure I could sell the wife on an additional vehicle since I already have three motorcycles, a wheeler, and a DD. Going to six vehicles might be a bit excessive, LOL.

Ramble ramble ramble...you'd think eventually just proofreading my own blabbing would make me sleepy.

I tried to daily a '78 FJ40 for a while. It was cool, but I couldn't do it if my commute was longer than a few miles. It's amazing how quickly the cool, rudimentary stuff you like at first turns into a drag, and you're showing up somewhere in a suit smelling like gas.
 

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