Drove the new Discovery and I'm totally confused now.

[epiclr4]

Have you thought about a Range Rover?

Not sure your ideal mileage when purchasing a used vehicle but you can now find 2013/2014 Range Rovers with our without the V8 for less than $80k with roughly 20-30k miles. Seriously considering one and continue to watch the prices come down.

Example: https://www.carmax.com/car/14315494

 

[manoftaste]

Range Rove? Pardon me but do you have any Grey Poupon?

Hahaha

Man, you sent me at least twenty years back in time with that ha.

 

[manoftaste]

When I was presented with the dilemma of keeping my 13 LR4/v8 or replacing it with a new LR4/v6, just to avoid the v6, I looked pretty hard at the RR inside out and tried to like it, but:

A: Could not get over the limited cargo space, non-stadium seating, and the bowing rear end and the tapering roof line with Ford Explorer looking rear end.
B: Could not get over the apparent fit and finish issues on the floor model(s) as well as units parked in the lot at different dealerships, for a 100k vehicle (and I took pix to send to LR).
C: No IBF (Integrated Body-Frame chassis) vs LR3/4, which is one of theee best things about LR3/4 imho.

The more I looked into it, the more I appreciated what LR4 had to offer, so even with the disadvantage of v6 I still chose LR4.

LR3/4 was simply the result of some real hard work that the engineers and the designers had put in resulting in major innovations such as IBF, cross-linked air suspension, completely flat cargo floor even with the third row seats option, Terrain Response, etc.

Rather than taking the easy way out of giving up and settling on compromises, its pretty clear that the engineering/design team had actually sat out to find solutions for overcoming the negatives of unibody and independent suspension for an offroad/towing capable suv. And the end product was nothing but an excellent combination of computer/electrical and mechanical technologies combining their strengths and complimenting each other, rather than trying to over-compensate for each other. The result was excellent overall performances both on and off road.

The current Discovery on the other hard is also the result of some real hard work, except that this time all this hard work is really coming from the marketing department and the bean counters (rather than it being from the engineering/design team) hence the latest innovations of sensor activated/dependent tow hitch receiver deployment, the Ford Explorer like profile, the car-like driver'/passengers' seating positions, the non-flat cargo space even when the seats are fully folded, and that ridiculously ill-designed tailgate that almost doubles the hight of the vehicle when fully opened. God forbid if you ever let it fully open in an enclosed space with no additional room as buffer. Well, maybe we need another set of sensors here so the tailgate could stop opening before it hits the ceiling

The other day, I was parked in a lower level parking lot with my suspension lowered to Access mode. Needed to get something out of the trunk, without thinking I opened the rear door fully and just at the last moment realized about the low ceiling but by then it was too late and the upper door was already fully opened. It was such a relief when I noticed that even when in full open position, it still remained under or close to being under the level of my crossbars.

The engineering/design departments were clearly forced to take the back seat this time around and were asked to simply follow orders from the suits and the book keepers

The full fledge RR for me at least, is not a multipurpose off road vehicle anymore, as it once was.

 

[PaulLR3]

Have you thought about a Range Rover?

I'm still thinking about the beautiful gray one with black package that I saw in the showroom. I can still picture the $121,000 window sticker as well.

 

[bash535i]

Epiclr4,

Hey guy, thanks for that bit of info. I completely agree with you on all of that. Fortunately, none of it was a deal breaker for us.

• I toyed with the idea of the diesel, but I'm just not there yet for a passenger vehicle. I use diesel in my mower, tractor, whole house generator, etc..., but I don't want the hassle of it with an oily vehicle, gas pump, etc.., nor the additional maintenance issues so many people seem to have with them. Additionally, you can only get the Quadra Drive II if you option the Summit with a HEMI.
• I don't really have the need to use the roof rails, so that isn't a problem for me, but I can see how it would be if a person needed them. As far as the hitch, the LR4 did a good job pulling the a small trailer, but when I started using a heavy duty 20' PJ Trailer car hauler to transport my tractor, it was borderline. I just broke down and purchased the truck and it's no longer an issue. Nice to know it can pull a trailer in a pinch, but I agree that the LR4 coverplate design is better.
• Pogo stick is putting it mildly- I envision a cartoon cat with it's legs straight out when using that mode. The GC is not nearly as smooth with the suspension extended. Again, we don't use this too often, but it will get us by in a bind.

Thanks for the ARB fridge info. It's even more applicable since I have one too!

Bottom line, the Jeep Grand Cherokee can be configured to do most of what the LR4 will do, but it's not going to do it in the same style or comfort when engaged in activities beside regular commuting. What's the alternative though? The Range Rover with V8 has similar characteristics, but I would still miss the "big box" cargo area.

At the end of the day, we are all fortunately that we can sit around worrying about these first-world problems when so many don't have the same luxury of choice.

Take care!

So to dive deeper into my roughly year and 20k-ish miles I had mine. Because, like you, on paper the JGC is a good blend of LR4/RRS in terms of dimensions and size with suspension and "off-road" capability. Was certainly the reason why I purchased one.

• The vehicle test drove fine. By the time I drove it 20 miles down the highway the blind spot monitoring system quit working. Sadly I picked it up late on a Saturday at a dealership nearly 4 hours away and when I walked out they were closing up. Needless to say it was a pain as it was a common problem that many peopled struggled to get fixed. Mine was never resolved.
• I had the EcoDiesel model which could get decent highway mileage typically 27-29 at 75-80 MPH but there was always a transmission issue where it would buck going into 3-4 gears from mostly a cold start. Again, something that mostly didn't seem to get fixed even though Jeep said they could fix it with software many people continued to have issues.
• I loved the LR4 for carrying Kayaks on the roof with the pop off covers on the bumpers. Not something you can easily do with the JGC because the roof rails are not really roof rails. They are super cheap and flimsy to the point that aftermarket companies quit supporting them. Also, the little cover that pops off the hitch in the back (only a summit issue I believe) starting having the plastic tabs break off after 2-3 times of use.
• Nitrogen Ride vs Air Ride are two totally different things. The Jeep system is completely closed. I would say on road I felt it was a little softer than the LR4 even though the LR4 weighs more. But off-road in the tallest mode that thing was like a pogo stick. Not nearly as composed and controlled as the LR4. Sounded like the shock was going to go through the tower.

As previously stated, I think if I would have gotten the Hemi I would have been much much happier. Diesel isn't all it is cracked up to be and in the modern age of 8 speed transmissions and cylinder deactivation the fuel difference just isn't what it use to be.

One thing I did do was install airline tracks in the back floor where the metal rails were for the summit model and was able to use that to strap down my ARB Fridge. That worked super well during ownership. I got them from Mac's Tie Downs. If you need something like that reach out to them. They should have them listed on their website or be able to dig up the measurements. I was the first person to do that and ended up selling them off to a guy in the Dominican Republic or something when I got rid of it.

 

[epiclr4]

Epiclr4,

Hey guy, thanks for that bit of info. I completely agree with you on all of that. Fortunately, none of it was a deal breaker for us.

• I toyed with the idea of the diesel, but I'm just not there yet for a passenger vehicle. I use diesel in my mower, tractor, whole house generator, etc..., but I don't want the hassle of it with an oily vehicle, gas pump, etc.., nor the additional maintenance issues so many people seem to have with them. Additionally, you can only get the Quadra Drive II if you option the Summit with a HEMI.
• I don't really have the need to use the roof rails, so that isn't a problem for me, but I can see how it would be if a person needed them. As far as the hitch, the LR4 did a good job pulling the a small trailer, but when I started using a heavy duty 20' PJ Trailer car hauler to transport my tractor, it was borderline. I just broke down and purchased the truck and it's no longer an issue. Nice to know it can pull a trailer in a pinch, but I agree that the LR4 coverplate design is better.
• Pogo stick is putting it mildly- I envision a cartoon cat with it's legs straight out when using that mode. The GC is not nearly as smooth with the suspension extended. Again, we don't use this too often, but it will get us by in a bind.

Thanks for the ARB fridge info. It's even more applicable since I have one too!

Bottom line, the Jeep Grand Cherokee can be configured to do most of what the LR4 will do, but it's not going to do it in the same style or comfort when engaged in activities beside regular commuting. What's the alternative though? The Range Rover with V8 has similar characteristics, but I would still miss the "big box" cargo area.

At the end of the day, we are all fortunately that we can sit around worrying about these first-world problems when so many don't have the same luxury of choice.

Take care!

Glad it wasn't a deal breaker! Just throwing out all the cons I had with it in comparison to the LR4. Now granted the AC worked in the JGC which was the important piece but I thought the Rover was better in every way.

• Your first bullet is incorrect in terms of no Quadra Drive 2 with the Summit Diesel. At least it is historically. I had the option on mine. Seems like if I go to the Jeep configurator right now there isn't even an option to get the Diesel in the Summit trim. Here is a link that shows you could do it in 2014 when I had mine. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f309/quadra-drive-ii-included-ecodiesel-option-1923657/#post18832737
• I only used the hitch for the bike carrier but on the Summit trim its pretty poorly designed. They really didn't have to put the jagged edges on the plastic clips that go up into the bumper I don't think.
• Wow, glad to know you agree on the suspension. First time I took it offload I was completely let down. The LR4 actually was closer to my JKUR with 3.5" Lift and 35's than the JGC.

As for the fridge details here is the link that I posted over in Jeep Garage. Should give you a good idea as to how it looks when done.

http://www.jeepgarage.org/f176/grand-cherokee-wk2-cargo-area-tie-down-tracks-80413.html#post1101594

To the OP: I think if you love your rover you should listen to @manoftaste and think twice about the SCV6. It definitely doesn't sound as good as the V8 but I never was let down by it. Only really let down that the AC never worked.... But it's really worth another look if you truly love the LR4. I know I secretly keep watching for a good copy to come up that I can hop back on.

 

[manoftaste]

epiclr4, my personal experience so far with the scv6 has been limited as I am still, partly at least, breaking the engine in and haven't really pushed it yet. I have got about 3k miles on it.

Last week we went on an hour or so long drive for a family get together with the truck loaded with total of four adults (including me the driver) and about 150-175 pounds of luggage in the trunk, and with the AC turned on. I stayed in between 70 or 77 mph (freeway 10). Even with a portion with some grade in and out (at about 1000 feet of altitude), the overall performance wasn't disappointing and the 8-speed did a good job of making up for SCV6. But again, I wasn't really pushing the engine hard.

At one point I had the cruise control set to 74 mph or something like that, had to slow down for the traffic ahead, when it resumed accelerating the truck after the road ahead opened up again, the pull was nice and constant and I could feel the torque. So its not as bad so far. But I am stilly definitely pretty mad at LR for stripping the truck off its V8 which used to feel just adequate. The V8 even with 5 adults was amazing at pulling up the freeway ramps etc, never felt underpowered and the torque feeling stayed the same regardless of the load.

What makes even more mad is the fact that the only vehicle in the entire lineup that needed the TDV6 the most was neglect when LR started to ship diesel motors to north american market a couple of years ago or so.

The above is my experience as an owner with about five or six years of MY06 LR3 (4.4 v8) which definitely felt underpowered, to about three years of MY13 LR4 (5.0 v8), to now about seven months of MY16 (SCV6), all with extensive freeway and city driving (NYC and then LA). My move from NY to LA was actually a cross country drive in my three months old LR3 HSE.

With seven months with the SCV6 and how it feels to me so far, if I had to do it all over again, I'd still choose LR4 SCV6 over the latest discovery as to me its just not the same truck anymore.

To keep things positive, I try to look at it as if I have just moved from my underpowered LR3 to LR4 SCV6 and then all feels good I dont like to think about my 13 V8 much

 

[epiclr4]

I only drove a 5.0V8 LR4 once as a loaner when they had mine in the shop. It sounded great and certainly felt faster, partially I think because of the V8 sound adding to the excitement.

On the other hand 1 MPG is 1 MPG and the LR4 I think was always lacking on range. We could only average about 325 miles to a tank of pure highway driving where every newer vehicle since has always been able to get us from door to door with some mileage left over when going to our second home. I also prefer the redesigned center console over the V8 model. Just personal preference on design and how I used the truck.

 

[manoftaste]

Yeah totally agree on the limited range.

I too like the scV6' new center console design but am not a fan of the rotary knob at all. The v8' console, specially the Terrain Response knob seemed like an after market add on, not surprisingly, because it was a direct lift from the Range Rover/Sport console minus a surrounding trim piece. And recycling it on LR4 without a properly re-designed surrounding trim piece, it always felt out of place and a bit ***** add-on that didn't go well with other design elements on the console of LR4 v8.

I mean, you could only go so far with using the same part on multiple vehicles in the lineup. Another example is the sideview mirrors on the scv6 came directly from the re-designed range rover/Sport even though the two vehicles are two completely different overall body designs, but luckily they don't look as bad on LR4.

 

[jwest]

I'm still thinking about the beautiful gray one with black package that I saw in the showroom. I can still picture the $121,000 window sticker as well.

Hell of a write down on 121k. (I'm self employed and have been playing this game since 1999)

To give you an idea of my own experience, current autos:

2007 lr3 bought new, now 130k, heavily modified
2004 discovery 2 with only 86k, bought slightly used in 2006 ... will probably never sell
2008 bmw 535 touring 6 spd, bought cpo in 2010, 129k miles now, love it, modified...plan to keep until better mix of desires type wagon exists in US, unlikely
2008 audi s4 avant mt6 bought new, only 85k miles, will probably never sell

Past:
2007 full size RR SC, bought new, took almost no loss selling with only 5000 miles to get the lr3 instead for practical/functional interior reasons.
2008 VW V10 tdi Touareg - cool but too small, even the 535 E61 wagon has more space inside!
2006 land cruiser bought new. Probably should've just kept that before going into the RRSC and then LR3.... (so many reasons not needed to express here)

The new D5 is ******** if compared to the lr4 for practical functionality, but you know that already. It is however, to me, way more interesting than the Q7. I have an affinity for BMW's but only when built with the higher spec interiors and suspensions. My I6 is so smooth and has a tune so it's quite fast. The handling is tighter with aftermarket suspension, it's lovely on long road trips, the 20 way seats are ergonomic heaven However, I probably wouldn't buy an x5 at this point.

For you, or me if I were replacing the lr3, i'd almost certainly now end up in a Land Cruiser or slightly nicer trimmed LX570. They are kind of a cool mix of things now being solid rear axle with very high towing and ladder frame yet with ventilated seats and 8spd transmission on a basic simple v8. Plus both are Japanese top grade builds. Simple functional tail gates, tow hitches, etc. Even a mechanical hand brake. Love that sort of blend.

If you were ever considering 120k, I'd urge you to drive a Mercedes G550, especially with the more recent turbo v8. Kind of dreamy in many ways and while it's old school solid axles and killer badass ball swivels, they do that better than anyone right now in terms of new vehicles. You've used your lr4 i think a lot right? The G wouldn't even need new tires, or anything. With gutters it can accept any true expedition rack and if desired, you can pop on 33-35" tires no problem, no mods needed. Heated windscreen, great ventilated seats, sounds like a muscle car, etc

Overall, I don't think the new land rovers are at all "worth" their price tags whereas I do think the Land Cruiser and LX are not only worth it, they are actually a value at sticker if kept long term.

Good luck.