Johnson Rods problem - Red Suspension Fault

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Red Lightning

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Moral of rod story is they are almost the dumbest thing you can do with an LR3/4 .... it amazes me people spend $$$$ on a vehicle they are too cheap or impatient to set up with parts commensurate with the vehicle cost. Electronic suspension adjustment, steel spring replacements or factory stock are the only good solutions. The rods represent lack of ethics taking advantage of ignorance. They aren't even required for 32" tires but the seller makes such dis-proven claims. LOL

jwest- I need you to educate me about your dislike for the lift rods. I primarily tinker with my '67 2A, but am now in the middle of selling my '06 LR3 for a '13 LR4, which I plan to modify for trail use and back country camping. I never modded my '06. My '13 is a LUX with the HD package and 20" factory rims. I enjoy off roading and know those low profile tires are going to result in the rims taking a beating.

I know there are a few more choices in 20" tires than a few years back, but I'd really like to step up to a Duratrac 275/55/20 and keep my stock rims, rather than go with an aftermarket 18" setup. I know you disagree with the seller saying that the rods are "required" for this size. Can you tell me what you meant by "electronic suspension adjustment" as one of the only good choices? Are you talking about the IID tool? I'm not interested in stock height or steel springs as options. Finally, can you explain why the rods are not required for 32" tires? Thanks in advance
 

jwest

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modifications to the interior wheel well are what's required and the only true improvement. What happens when there's a suspension fault and you've been relying solely on the rods to keep the body away from the tire...? you're screwed is what happens.

the irony is that all these people claim to want bigger tires, etc for why? off road? sure, but a nice even gravel road is not "off road" nor does it require any tire change. Thus, thinking the dumb rods will somehow do magical things like keep your tire out of the fender liner and body during high wheel articulation is not an actual solution. The rods do nothing more than what the system already allows for, thus, they really bring nothing to the table for the rough situations. What they will do perfectly is allow you to roll around town and make tight turns with bigger tires. But how silly is that when what they also do is equally reduce the ability to get into the lowest parking garages, or even your own at home if anything is on the roof.

Rods do not truly solve the 32" tire problem, only the physical mods will. 32" will rub on stuff without these mods. 31.5 i think will rub the frame horns, 31 will not rub anything. 31.5 you can do the mods yourself if you're handy. 32" mods get more annoyingly involved though. at that point you might as well go all the way and make 33" fit and step up to the 275/60-20 which is just under 33"

the problem with these 20" tires is that they are often wider so while the 275/55-20 is practically the same diameter as the highly used 265/65-18 size, it's wider tread causes problems with rubbing during turning that the narrower 265 gets away with clearing.

So, either male the necessary well covered physical modifications, or be happy with how capable it is with none of this crap to worry about.

here's the thing, 20' are ridiculous off road. if you were going to go through all the trouble to really make a proper fitting of a larger 20" tire.... which still only gives you a short sidewall, why not go the mile and make 18" wheels fit?! You could use the 20's for most of the time or for winter or sell them.

The IIDtool is used by people to simply set the suspension higher just like the rods would....but with the ability to undo it at any time and to reset the system if you do get into trouble. guess what, just tossing on rods and bigger tires is asking for a really annoying day if ever there's a problem.

Rods are like giving you a gun, loaded, with no safety switch, no training, and no way to unload it.... it's all fine until it isn't with zero backup plan.

By electronic interface, besides IIDtool, I mean LLAMS as noted before. It allows on demand while driving height changing. For example, my larger tires may scrub the fender liner on a big dip compression on normal height so off road at speed i can just leave it at +20mm or even +50mm but then on the highway for hours have it rolling at perfectly fine normal height which is safer and more sporty handling than full time lifted like these people seem to think is so cool. It's not cool, it's stupid.

I don't think it makes any sense to full time extend the air struts beyond their engineering and roll 7000-8000 lbs down the highway at 80 mph just because they're lazy to do these modifications. I'm tired of hearing about it too. Too many lazy poser cheapos.
 

Surfrider77

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Backing up what JWest is saying, the rods site claims you "need" them for 265/65/18, which is complete crap. (Those are roughly 31.5") Lots of people, myself included, run these bone stock without issue.

I also use an IID Tool and use it to raise the EAS only when necessary off-road. My particular issue is when desert running, I can have areas with low speed and high wheel articulation, then hard pack flats for some stretches in between dunes again. With the stock setup, the stock system would force itself to lower every time I hit ~50km/h. Then when I encounter rough spots, I need to force it into off-road height again and this will tax the compressor. To make things clear, this would be an issue with stock size tires too. For me, it is getting the lift forced to a preset level which I can store multiple EAS profiles (lift heights) and change accordingly.

Rods are just dumb pieces of hardware forcing your physical sensors to think they are at a different height than they are. You are stuck with that extra lift unless you get under the truck and physically remove those rods and replace with stock.

I much prefer my truck to ride at standard height and only use electronic EAS adjustments when necessary.

By rough guide, these trucks can handle 31.5" tires with no modification (some outlier tires might rub initially). If you want anything beyond that, the first obstacle you will overcome is the frame-horns. Not an easy job. So, yea.. going 32"+ will involve a lot of work.

If anyone is serious about off-roading to the point of these mods, doing so on 20" wheels seems pointless. You are sacrificing so much sidewall it's a joke really. Go 18"s and do it right. You get far better off-road tire selection in that size anyway.
 

Red Lightning

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jwest and surf - your extreme hatred and saltiness for lift rods and/or slacker inspired short cuts has convinced me to get 18s and a dedicated set of ATs for trail use only and keep my 20" black factory rims beautiful forever!!!! Muchos Gracias Amigos!
 

jwest

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jwest and surf - your extreme hatred and saltiness for lift rods and/or slacker inspired short cuts has convinced me to get 18s and a dedicated set of ATs for trail use only and keep my 20" black factory rims beautiful forever!!!! Muchos Gracias Amigos!

I like that plan a lot. I know it's not for everyone to deal with having more than one set of wheels and tires but there is even a cost benefit approach to using tires more suited to the conditions which translates into long term bonuses:

on the standard set you get fuel economy and less component wear (suspension, wheel bearings, even brakes due to lighter wheels and more efficient tires) that can add up over 40-70,000 miles depending on tires chosen, or if you enjoy spirited driving and have a fairly light weight set up, then simply more fun and ease

on the off road set you are less likely to damage a tire or wheel or vehicle in general if using a larger tire than you would want to run full time or having to compromise with 20" wheels, etc. you also have more fun off road being able to air down more getting better traction

This is no different than people who use a separate winter tire set for obvious reasons. While a great A/T tire can do almost everything, it is a bit hindered if also limited to a 20" version on 9" wide wheels and what will actually fit.

I'm willing to bet that the dollars saved by using most of the time a tire like my Michelin M/S2 could actually almost cover the cost of the 2nd wheel set over it's 70,000 mile life. One could see a matched set BFG AT KO2 & M/S2 take your vehicle to 150,000 miles from new.
 

TongPhan

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Same thing happened to me. The car was resting on the bump stops and showed the suspension fault.

I called Johnson Rods and he was very helpful. He said that these cars do not like to be on a lift where the wheels are hanging. That in itself can throw a suspension fault he said.

So I just lifted the car, still on the same lift, to where it's close to ride height. Started the car back up and the fault went away. I guess it has to be in range of OEM height to reset.

Johnson Rods also recommends installing the rods on the ground by crawling underneath for the rear and turning the steering wheel for the fronts.

Hope this is helpful to someone down the line.

Cheers,
 

jwest

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Hope nobody is installing the rods without also paying for a proper full 4 wheel alignment.

If so, you’re actually ruining your control arm bushings which will cost you $$$.

Again, the rods are such a bad idea and not even cost effective.

Buy a height controller which can reset the inevitable random suspension fault, among other faults and custom coding, but also set height for off-road as needed.



Nobody needs to be rolling around at Plus 2 all the time where a Prius can also drive LOL
 

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