Making a case for the D5

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mpinco

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Is it just me or is it really that LRNA has been advertising the **** out of D5 on TV?……...

Overall auto sales are down. While at one time LR sales were up as a result of more models, I think that Discovery sales were less than expected. Sales have gone down since those days.

Jaguar Land Rover announces turnaround plan as sales slide

They are in reorg mode to address a pre-tax loss of $116 million.

So, more adverts!!

Similar to all the smartphone ads you are seeing as that sector is in decline from saturation, few new features and pricing that is too high.

Edit add: Discovery and Discovery Sport sales are down 18.8% and 24.6% YoY per JLR Oct 18 financials.
 
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bbyer

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Edit add: Discovery and Discovery Sport sales are down 18.8% and 24.6% YoY per JLR Oct 18 financials.
I do not suppose anything we say has any merit, but I know money talks, (or the lack of it) - there is hope.

My suggestion is they best just rename the new Defender to Sport ? and get the LR4 hood badge changed - they could save themselves or at least buy some time.
 

manoftaste

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I do not suppose anything we say has any merit, but I know money talks, (or the lack of it) - there is hope...

I very respectfully disagree given the modern context. And here is my reasoning:

If we were to be living in an isolated world of the eighties or nineties or earlier, the good old money talks would have mattered a lot more. Back then decision makers were almost like opinion/market drivers/shifters. Whereas in 2018 we live in a much more transparent, well aware world with solid competition driving the tech advancements as well as the economics of things. Every now an then you'll have a Tesla or RED camera blowing everything out of the water. Look into what the RED camera did do the nice, comfortable, fat and lazy film tech industry where a camera body alone used to cost upwards of two hundred grand, without the lenses. RED almost killed the film industry giants such as ARRI, Panavision, Kodak, and Agfa (the mercedes and bmw of that trade) with a single strike. All those giants had become lazy as the business was already good with no real need for R&D in advancements and the film tech basically sat and rot over the decades, that is until RED exploded on the scene and woke everybody the hell up and force-sent everyone from one extreme end of being profitable and lazy to the other extreme end of survival mode.

Tesla now has everyone else scrambling including once-innovators but now turned fat and lazy makers such as mercedes and BMW. Havent seen any ground breaking tech from them lately, and by lately I mean the last couple of decades :)

But most of all, a lot of it is now driven by the fact that the modern consumer/customer is a much smarter customer. ****** products will have a small run and will simply not survive however conforming they maybe to the prevailing fads/demands as there are just too many makers out there looking for opportunities.

And, as a consumer/customer, my job is to simply demand a better product the moment I become interested in a brand and reach for my pocket, period, and specially when the brand is supposedly a "prestige" brand, costing me upwards of 65 or 70k.

Sympathy and well-being of the executives in charge should be the least of my concerns as a customer as I am pretty sure that most of them will survive with owning only four houses each instead of five and/or an island getaway cabin. And I am also sure that regardless they still will find a way to buy their fifth house with a matching yacht to go with it :)

So yes, what we, the potential or existing paying customers have to say, matters in 2018. And the more we let the automaker(s) know what we are thinking and how we are responding to their product(s), the more it will keep the executives/suits in check, the better the product(s) will be, and we as paying customers will also win at the end of the day along with the executives/suits with their fifth homes.

The passive the paying customer, the shittier the end-product, thats how its always been.
 
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COangela

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"- Tailgate...it's just dumb. Seriously, why would you do this, the split was amazing and this is something I cannot get over.

So, while this will not be a replacement for my LR4 (because I am superficial and like the look of my LR4...aaaand I'm too invested in my lr4) it may be an option for my wife's RRS when the time comes. It really is better than the LR4 in many areas, but it seems more like an extra capable and practical RRS. "


I appreciate that you are finding the positives and helping others see them. I really wanted to like the D5. Really, I did. But the Cons you mentioned and a couple of others are just too much for me to overlook. I have now held on to my LR3 for 2 years longer than I planned to because I just can't bring myself to not have all the things that make me love owning the Discovery line. It breaks my heart to say...but I feel like they lost their soul when they came out with this new design. And the logical side of me hears that it is still the amazing off-roader we all know and love, but without the "soul" the "skill" just isn't enough for me. You'll probably appreciate this sentiment more than others, but it's like watching a really talented surfer with no personal style. It's just...well...meh.
 

bbyer

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Last year I went to a Land Rover Discovery day and got a ride up and down impossible slopes and angles.

My take away was that the D5 is capable, but it does not look capable.

It is a case of Form did not follow Function.

I guess Land Rover cannot yet figure that a Land Rover should look like a Land Rover!

When they designed the 3, it was a real gamble - yes, it looked like a Land Rover for the most part, but the interior was too nice etc. and it was crammed with features not yet available on most vehicles, let alone a 4x4.

Four corner air suspension, four wheel independent suspension, a twin speed transfer case but no actual locking - some sort of computer run ABS anti skid traction system - that was a gamble, but it worked. Seating for seven that all folded flat in the rear with a real tailgate opening at the rear, and the list goes on. Effectively a unit body on a full frame; tow hooks, front & rear, but hidden - kind of classy really as was the total vehicle, but also capable!

In summary and to everyone's pleasant surprise, the design and features worked well to the point it spawned the Sport line and that really took off.

The followup - well the sales figures answer that and the market has spoken.
 

manoftaste

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When they designed the 3, it was a real gamble - yes, it looked like a Land Rover for the most part, but the interior was too nice etc. and it was crammed with features not yet available on most vehicles, let alone a 4x4.

Four corner air suspension, four wheel independent suspension, a twin speed transfer case but no actual locking - some sort of computer run ABS anti skid traction system - that was a gamble, but it worked. Seating for seven that all folded flat in the rear with a real tailgate opening at the rear, and the list goes on. Effectively a unit body on a full frame; tow hooks, front & rear, but hidden - kind of classy really as was the total vehicle, but also capable!...

All those engineering innovations were the result of the then market demands but in a very effective, functional, and tasteful manner, and some more. Whenever you stick those principles, you advance and make progress and thats exactly what happened (which we all witnessed and benefited from), to the extent that the rest of the market was simply forced to follow suit.
 

jwest

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Ha! I have ARRI and Mole Richardson fresnel hot lights! :)

D5 butt stinks. D5 cockpit rocks for long road trips though site lines are weak.

I’d buy a new Land Cruiser over D5 without even a hesitation unless I were sure I could get a td6 and 18’s onto it and rip the back seats out.

Nah, the cruiser would be basically issue free while that D5 has so much wizbangery it will surely become a headache around 150,000 miles.
 

manoftaste

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D5 cockpit rocks for long road trips though site lines are weak...

Stopped by the local dealership and sat in a D5's driver' seat of a display model recently. Had to raise the seat to mimic the LR3/4' command view, still not the same after raising the seat by quite a bit and raising the seat makes your head get pretty close to the ceiling and the A-pillars. Definitely not the same thing, not for me unfortunately. But overall the interior felt more luxurious than LR4.
 
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bbyer

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Definitely not the same thing, not for me unfortunately. But overall the interior felt more luxurious than LR4.
Luxurious is pretty easy to do and everyone does above a certain price point.

Capable is much more difficult, but not much good if all one sees is luxurious. This is why I think LR does not understand that with capable, the vehicle must also appear capable.

The real Jeeps look capable; the G Wagon looks and is capable; the Land Cruiser/Prado's, I guess so as well, so would at least one Land Rover be so difficult?
 

Frank8

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Luxurious is pretty easy to do and everyone does above a certain price point.

Capable is much more difficult, but not much good if all one sees is luxurious. This is why I think LR does not understand that with capable, the vehicle must also appear capable.

The real Jeeps look capable; the G Wagon looks and is capable; the Land Cruiser/Prado's, I guess so as well, so would at least one Land Rover be so difficult?

Nicely stated! The D5 might be a magic carpet offroad but to my eyes it looks absurd in a trail situation. Just inappropriate. It looks perfectly fine in a suburban driveway. I’m glad I have an LR4 and won’t get a D5 for that reason.

There is a fundamental disharmony in the D5.
 

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