Going Back to Rovers after Toyota

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Mo Benje

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Hello Friends,

I user to own a 1990 RR classic 3.9, it was a great Truck a lot of 4WD adventures put 260 K on it. Sold it and went with a 4 Runner. Not as much fun.

I am looking to go back and purchase an LR4, I need some advice as I have been out of the game for awhile:

  1. 2013 seems to be a good year before the V8 was replaced with SC V6. Is that correct? Are the 2014 and 2015 any better?
  2. How many miles is the sweet spot to purchase before issues start? I am finding between 40 k to 120K miles on the market.
  3. What should I look for when inspecting the truck?
  4. What should I look for in Air suspension? Compressor, bags, etc,
  5. What trim is best to modify and take offroad?
I am looking forward to go back to Rovers,

Thanks for your help
 

ryanjl

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1. 2013 is the sweet spot. You still get the Rover V8, but the timing chain guides have been updated to the new part. Those still reportedly can have some issues, though, but so long as you keep the oil changes to 6-7k instead of Rover's recommended 15k, everything should be ok.

2. I'd look for service history ahead of miles. Around 60 - 70k is when the lower control arm bushings need replaced. Look also to see if the water pump or coolant crossover pipe has been replaced. Probably most importantly, look to see if the oil changes were closer to 6k miles than they were to 15k.

3. Service history. Just see how it drives and brakes. Listen for any weird noise on startup that could be indicative of a timing chain issue.

4. Nothing really here. When parts go bad, they get replaced. They don't typically show any signs before they go bad. I guess, when you walk up to the car, see if it's leaning to one side or the other?

5. For 2013 or earlier, the "HD Package" meant that it had the rear locker, but all LR4s of that vintage had a low range center diff. The rear locker is a "nice to have" there. For 2014 and later, however, the standard LR4 just had a high range center diff, and the low range center diff moved into part of the HD package. There, the HD package is a "must have" if you want to go off road.

To find the HD package in your search, for 13 and older, run the VIN through Land Rover's topix website. For 14 or later, just look for the low range switch in the instrument panels. As a warning, though, it seems like fewer than 1 in 10 have it.
 

Troy A

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@mobenje

I just went through this as I just traded in my 2018 4Runner TRD Off-road so that I could find and build up an LR4. In addition to the great comments by @ryanjl I would add a few.

MY2009-2011 seemed to be a group with the same navigation system.
You can't stream on the 2009-2011 directly. But you can buy a third-party adaptor that plugs into the iPod connector in the armrest and gives you BT streaming and song name display etc in the infotainment system.

MY2012-2013 added the updated nav/audio system (and bluetooth?)
Bluetooth added. Entertainment and navigation got a major upgrade for 2012, with new nav interface and additional speakers on the premium sound package.

MY2014+ is where they cut over to the 3.0L V6 and went from a console-based shifter to a set of paddle shifters on the steering wheel.

For my own purposes I was trying to find something in the $20K-$22K range, 50K-80K miles, and with the factory bluetooth / updated stereo and floor-based shifters (I hate paddle shifters) so that put me squarely into the 2012-2013 camp.

I managed to find a 2013 HSE for $22K at a Land Rover dealer with a full set of service records and only two owners.

That was after looking up probably 30 online, viewing 10, and test-driving 6. I found a lot of crap out there - poorly treated, multi-owner, poor service histories were the rule.

Let us know what happens! Looks from your profile like you're in the LA area. I saw a lot of great candidate vehicles down there so you should be able to find what you're looking for.
 

djatkinson

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Troy,

I just read your very informative post.
Over the past few years, I've spent quite a bit of $$$ replacing and repairing many things on my 2006 LR3 HSE, which I intend to keep for quite some time.
But still, I sometimes wonder if I would have been better off doing as you did.
Could you tell me how many miles the 2023 HSE had when you bought it?

Thanks,
Dan
 

Troy A

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Troy,

I just read your very informative post.
Over the past few years, I've spent quite a bit of $$$ replacing and repairing many things on my 2006 LR3 HSE, which I intend to keep for quite some time.
But still, I sometimes wonder if I would have been better off doing as you did.
Could you tell me how many miles the 2023 HSE had when you bought it?

Thanks,
Dan

Hey Dan, yeah I picked it up with 72K miles on it. I found one 2012 *WITH HD PACKAGE* (i.e. lockers) and one owner and only 50K miles on it. Unfortunately it was in Ipanema sand and I was just not a fan of that color.

Ultimately I went with the advice I think somebody in this forum or another provided which was the HD / lockers are so hard to find, don't bypass something really good because it doesn't have them. I may actually retrofit the OEM one in later. We'll see.




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djatkinson

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Troy, that's good info for anyone looking to buy.

On our 2006 LR3 HSE, which had 93K+ miles on it in 2010 (my wife's vehicle when I first met her on our first date!), the expenses were relatively minor; the usual stuff like brakes, tires, washer reservoir, and a hub.
Then, at about 122K miles (2014), things like thermostat, belt tensioners, front control arm, re-configuring modules, etc. enter the picture. This is where a few 1000s of $$ are spent. No problem, right?

By the time we hit 139K (2015), little things like ignition coils, A-pillar drain tube, tires are addressed.

At 153K miles (2016), we got off easy with oil changes and struts for the rear tailgate hatch. And, let's not forget dealing with the surprising tailgate lock motor! :))

By 162K miles (2017), air suspension compressor (this wrong one was installed by an indie shop that I no longer use) and 2 more tires.

By 171K miles (2018), two front struts were replaced, all brakes were replaced, radiator hose replaced, water pump replaced, primary belt drive replaced, tie rod ends replaced, AC system evacuated/recharged, misc..
In that year (2018) several thousands have been spent, and we're kinda scratching our heads, because we're really starting to put some $$$$ into it.

Now to date (2019), 185K miles, we have replaced:
three ignition coils, 3 tires, rear hubs, rear driveshaft, rear main seal, purge valve, PCV VALVE, rear differential motor, heater core assembly+thermostat+bleeding the system, and 2 outer tie rods. I also replaced the compressor that wrongly placed with the right one.
Then...to really test my resolve, I had to get the transmission rebuilt!!

So...2019 has been a relatively expensive year, which has far exceeded what I thought I would be spending on this Rover. I probably don't need to discuss the numbers, but it should be easy to see that at some point during accumulation of mileage, you could make a case for a tipping point, at which you would go shopping around for another vehicle. But, as they say, hindsight is always crystal clear.
Should it be a new vehicle? No, the numbers aren't close.

For anyone shopping around, and if my vehicle is representative of how expensive these Rovers can get once they get into high mileage, it would be prudent to do some careful shopping around to get all the features one would want and be very mindful of the mileage, the previous owner(s) and the environments in which they were driven.

Looking back at the history of this vehicle before my wife bought it, there were already 90+K miles on it in 4 years time, and it spent it's early life in Wisconsin, probably in a salty environment. It might be questioned whether that plays a part.

In my case, I have gradually become more familiar and fond of the LR3, especially after I took it off-road! I just liked the vehicle, and I could see maintaining it for many years to come. Maybe that's a type of confirmation bias, due to all the $$$$$ I kept spending on it!!!
At this point, I've replaced most of the major things, and I have a pretty solid Rover, but I know that things like controls arms, etc., will always need to be addressed.

It's hard to get all the details or predict everything, but patience in finding the right vehicle can really pay off.

Just my 2 cents, but I hope it helps someone...
 

Troy A

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Troy, that's good info for anyone looking to buy.

On our 2006 LR3 HSE, which had 93K+ miles on it in 2010 (my wife's vehicle when I first met her on our first date!), the expenses were relatively minor; the usual stuff like brakes, tires, washer reservoir, and a hub.
Then, at about 122K miles (2014), things like thermostat, belt tensioners, front control arm, re-configuring modules, etc. enter the picture. This is where a few 1000s of $$ are spent. No problem, right?

By the time we hit 139K (2015), little things like ignition coils, A-pillar drain tube, tires are addressed.

At 153K miles (2016), we got off easy with oil changes and struts for the rear tailgate hatch. And, let's not forget dealing with the surprising tailgate lock motor! :))

By 162K miles (2017), air suspension compressor (this wrong one was installed by an indie shop that I no longer use) and 2 more tires.

By 171K miles (2018), two front struts were replaced, all brakes were replaced, radiator hose replaced, water pump replaced, primary belt drive replaced, tie rod ends replaced, AC system evacuated/recharged, misc..
In that year (2018) several thousands have been spent, and we're kinda scratching our heads, because we're really starting to put some $$$$ into it.

Now to date (2019), 185K miles, we have replaced:
three ignition coils, 3 tires, rear hubs, rear driveshaft, rear main seal, purge valve, PCV VALVE, rear differential motor, heater core assembly+thermostat+bleeding the system, and 2 outer tie rods. I also replaced the compressor that wrongly placed with the right one.
Then...to really test my resolve, I had to get the transmission rebuilt!!

So...2019 has been a relatively expensive year, which has far exceeded what I thought I would be spending on this Rover. I probably don't need to discuss the numbers, but it should be easy to see that at some point during accumulation of mileage, you could make a case for a tipping point, at which you would go shopping around for another vehicle. But, as they say, hindsight is always crystal clear.
Should it be a new vehicle? No, the numbers aren't close.

For anyone shopping around, and if my vehicle is representative of how expensive these Rovers can get once they get into high mileage, it would be prudent to do some careful shopping around to get all the features one would want and be very mindful of the mileage, the previous owner(s) and the environments in which they were driven.

Looking back at the history of this vehicle before my wife bought it, there were already 90+K miles on it in 4 years time, and it spent it's early life in Wisconsin, probably in a salty environment. It might be questioned whether that plays a part.

In my case, I have gradually become more familiar and fond of the LR3, especially after I took it off-road! I just liked the vehicle, and I could see maintaining it for many years to come. Maybe that's a type of confirmation bias, due to all the $$$$$ I kept spending on it!!!
At this point, I've replaced most of the major things, and I have a pretty solid Rover, but I know that things like controls arms, etc., will always need to be addressed.

It's hard to get all the details or predict everything, but patience in finding the right vehicle can really pay off.

Just my 2 cents, but I hope it helps someone...

Man that’s a lot but then it’s a lot of miles. And as you say the total costs are likely nowhere close to a new vehicle.

I’m sure a case could be made for running a vehicle up to 150k miles, then selling it and starting over around 75k miles and then using it for 75k more. Rinse and repeat.

Andrew St Pierre White once said in a video of his “how do you know when you should sell your vehicle?” He said the answer was, when you no longer like it, when it no longer suits your needs, or when it is no longer feasible for you or when you no longer look at it the way you used to. Like, you don’t walk away from your truck and then turn back and look at it and think damn I really like this thing. It was something to that effect anyway.

It sounds like that LR3 of yours has been part of the family for a long time and clearly has served your needs and it sounds like you still look at it as a viable vehicle.

I would agree that at some point, you have to hit a crossover point where financially it doesn’t make any sense.

Could you move to an LR4 and buy yourself another 6 to 10 years and hundred thousand miles with a newer vehicle with less problems? My guess is you probably can. Depending on the new vehicle. There is always the “devil you know” issue.

But I feel for the people who are currently in an LR4 who are considering doing the same thing (upgrading to stay ahead of costs) and they feel like they have nowhere to go because again, if you are staying in the used market, there aren’t a lot of used low-cost discovery 5s on the market yet. And jumping up to a new D5 or Defender realistically means taking on a $75,000+ purchase.

Personally, I traded in a perfectly good 2018 Toyota forerunner that I had purchased new and used for 20,000 miles. I traded it in because I always wanted to buy, own, and build up A Land Rover. So for me it was more of a heart decision than a head decision. I went from a vehicle with zero cost service built into it and absolutely reliable operating record to buying a six-year-old LR four which I immediately put $5000 of preventive maintenance into.





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Rene Koesler

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I once traded a 99 Disco I for a new Toyota 4-runner and 5 months later traded that for a new 2000 Disco II because I missed the LR! The Toyota was perfectly reliable while the Disco I was not BUT the Toyota just didn't do it for me. It had no "soul". And the Disco II turned out to be just as good as any Toyota.
 

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