SYA Spacer Squeak - Front End Squeak - PSA/FIX

iSurfvilano · Feb 23, 2023

***Only applies if you have the SYA Kit on your rig*** I mostly use my LR4 off-road and over the years I've developed squeaks, all of which I've been able to fix. One developed about a year ago that I could not figure out but it had the same signs as a bad sway bar bushing but it wasn't. Every time I'd hit a slight bump the front end would squeak and it progressively got worse. I found that it would not make a noise if I lifted the vehicle and would drive over a rough road, it was weird...well I found the issue and thought I'd share how I fixed it.

There is a round metal disc on the top of the airbag that over time will rub against the low end of the front SYA spacers which creates a super annoying squeak. By removing the disc you can file it down so that it'll no longer make contact with the spacer. Won't be hard to identify as you can see the wear points. Then put it all back together, throw some grease around it for good measure and there you go.

I have confirmed this being the issue on my friends RRS with the same spacers who also off-roads it a heavy amount... So before going crazy and buying new control arms or sway bushings you may want to check those spacers first because it only costs a little effort to fix.

Worn part of the disc:

Worn spacer:

Rounded off disc, fixed the problem:

ryanjl · Feb 23, 2023

Holy cow. I can't imagine all the things you did before you realized this was the cause.

avslash · Feb 23, 2023

Good info. Haven't ever noticed it on mine, and mine is almost entirely an offroad vehicle at this point.

I have been pondering a point I am unsure of regarding the SYA spacers.

Basically, my question is whether or not full suspension compression is available when running the SYA kit.

My understanding of the SYA kits effect are as follows:

On the droop side of suspension travel, your vehicle gains 2 inches of droop in the front and rear. This is because the spacers sit above the air struts and physically relocate the air struts two inches lower. The front and rear A-arms are mechanically capable of drooping an additional 2 inches so that additional droop is available. This is why the SYA kit includes the limiting straps, or in our case with the RCV axles why the limiting straps are not needed since the RCV axles can accommodate the increased CV angle from the additional droop.

On the compression side of suspension travel, when running the SYA kit, if you make no adjustment to ride height via either GAP Tool or rod length, the ride height of the vehicle will not be altered. This is because the computer is sensing a longer length between rod mounting points (because of the additional 2 inches of the SYA spacer). The computer accommodates this by reducing pressure in the air strut bladders to make ride height what it should be in factory "Normal" mode. Because the air pressure in the struts now approximates "Access" pressure, the truck will ride like a buckboard. We work around this by either installing longer "lift" rods or dialing in lift via the GAP Tool. This causes the computer to increase the pressure in the air bladders to something that approximates factory "Normal" pressure and thus the ride quality returns to normal, but the truck is now sitting at approximately 2 inches above factory "Normal" ride height due to the additional height of the SYA spacers.

At the end of all of this, we are left with a truck in "Normal" suspension mode that is setting 2 inches higher than it did from the factory, with pressures in the air struts that approximate what it was from the factory in the "Normal" suspension setting, and control arm geometry that approximates what it would be in factory "Offroad" height.

My thought is that the suspension SHOULD be able to fully compress since air bladder pressure is equal to what it would be in an unmodified truck at "Normal" suspension setting, and that the control arm geometry should be able to accommodate this compression since it is starting from a downward extended position versus versus an unmodified truck.

Feel free to discuss and shoot holes in my understanding.

ryanjl · Feb 23, 2023

avslash said:
On the droop side of suspension travel, your vehicle gains 2 inches of droop in the front and rear. This is because the spacers sit above the air struts and physically relocate the air struts two inches lower. The front and rear A-arms are mechanically capable of drooping an additional 2 inches so that additional droop is available. This is why the SYA kit includes the limiting straps, or in our case with the RCV axles why the limiting straps are not needed since the RCV axles can accommodate the increased CV angle from the additional droop.

Whoa. I was totally unaware of this part. That makes a spacer lift all the more compelling.

iSurfvilano · Feb 23, 2023

avslash said:
Good info. Haven't ever noticed it on mine, and mine is almost entirely an offroad vehicle at this point.

I have been pondering a point I am unsure of regarding the SYA spacers.

Basically, my question is whether or not full suspension compression is available when running the SYA kit.

My understanding of the SYA kits effect are as follows:

On the droop side of suspension travel, your vehicle gains 2 inches of droop in the front and rear. This is because the spacers sit above the air struts and physically relocate the air struts two inches lower. The front and rear A-arms are mechanically capable of drooping an additional 2 inches so that additional droop is available. This is why the SYA kit includes the limiting straps, or in our case with the RCV axles why the limiting straps are not needed since the RCV axles can accommodate the increased CV angle from the additional droop.

On the compression side of suspension travel, when running the SYA kit, if you make no adjustment to ride height via either GAP Tool or rod length, the ride height of the vehicle will not be altered. This is because the computer is sensing a longer length between rod mounting points (because of the additional 2 inches of the SYA spacer). The computer accommodates this by reducing pressure in the air strut bladders to make ride height what it should be in factory "Normal" mode. Because the air pressure in the struts now approximates "Access" pressure, the truck will ride like a buckboard. We work around this by either installing longer "lift" rods or dialing in lift via the GAP Tool. This causes the computer to increase the pressure in the air bladders to something that approximates factory "Normal" pressure and thus the ride quality returns to normal, but the truck is now sitting at approximately 2 inches above factory "Normal" ride height due to the additional height of the SYA spacers.

At the end of all of this, we are left with a truck in "Normal" suspension mode that is setting 2 inches higher than it did from the factory, with pressures in the air struts that approximate what it was from the factory in the "Normal" suspension setting, and control arm geometry that approximates what it would be in factory "Offroad" height.

My thought is that the suspension SHOULD be able to fully compress since air bladder pressure is equal to what it would be in an unmodified truck at "Normal" suspension setting, and that the control arm geometry should be able to accommodate this compression since it is starting from a downward extended position versus versus an unmodified truck.

Feel free to discuss and shoot holes in my understanding.

Dang, you went deep haha

iSurfvilano · Feb 23, 2023

avslash said:
Basically, my question is whether or not full suspension compression is available when running the SYA kit.

When I dumped the air out of the bags onto my 285/70/18s to see where there was touching it compressed enough that I'd rip a liner out hahaha

avslash · Feb 23, 2023

iSurfvilano said:
When I dumped the air out of the bags onto my 285/70/18s to see where there was touching it compressed enough that I'd rip a liner out hahaha

Thats a good point, and I think it leads to a yes answer. Mechanically, I think there should be enough up travel available since the uptravel starts at a lower point than an unmodified truck. Only reason I can think of that it wouldn't fully compress is if the pressure in the air strut was enough to overcome the weight of truck such that the air strut itself would not fully compress. I don't think that is likely (or even possible) at factory "Normal" pressure.

Yes, these are the deeeeep thought upon which I ruminate.

avslash · Feb 23, 2023

ryanjl said:
Whoa. I was totally unaware of this part. That makes a spacer lift all the more compelling.

That droop is only usable if you install CV axles that can cope with the extended angle involved. You will blow out a factory CV without the limiting straps.

ftillier · Feb 23, 2023

I would expect the bump stops (which are part of the shock unit) to make it so that you're 2" higher when on bump stops than you would be without the SYA kit. I don't know if the suspension would normally allow articulation up to the bump stops, though. But my gut feel is everything ends up 2" higher from stock due to the spacers.

SYA Spacer Squeak - Front End Squeak - PSA/FIX

iSurfvilano

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