Advice for Brake Shake

Fulltimesav

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I've had a problem I've been battling for a while and I wanted to post here to see if any of you had a suggestion I haven't thought of.

Frist off I'm aware my model sport is tough on front brakes. I did a brake job last year and have about 10k miles on the brakes so far. I'm a little bit of a freak and like everything working perfectly always so when I did the brake job I upgraded to Brakeperformance.com dimpled and slotted rotors with semi metallic pads in attempt to try and keep my rotors true and not warp as they wear.

First set of rotors I put on warped almost immediately which I originally thought might have been because I zapped the lug nuts on with my gun. I replaced them this time taking care to torque them thinking I made a mistake the first time. This rotors stayed true for about 5k miles and then slowly started to shake over time.

Now I have about 10k miles on them and when coming off the freeway I get a pretty good shake in the wheel. I'm aware that the lift kit I have on the truck in combination with the bigger tires is probably putting extra stress on the braking system and I'm noticing faint (not obvious) heat rings on the rotors.

My question is, is there anything more robust I can try so I can eliminate this? Different pads or rotors someone with a similar set up has had better luck with. I'd love your thoughts if any of you have already gone though this.

Thanks in advance :)
 

p_f_m

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What is the history of your brake fluid ? How old is it ? In my experience with another brand/model car I had noticed the brake shake increases when the brake fluid has deteriorated and it goes away when the fluid is replaced.
I had good luck with a higher grade synthetic aftermarket brake fluid I got from Autozone.
 

Fulltimesav

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You know I'm not 100% sure it's actually been changed. I bought the car around 85kmi and now it has 109kmi. When I bought it it had already had it's 90k service but all I see on the paper records is "fluids inspected/ topped off." So I'm not actually sure it's been changed as part of the 90k.

That said what's the theory behind this? I've always been a change your brake fluid kind of guy to prevent the rubber breakdown and overall crap buildup in the system, but I'v never heard about it in relation to getting the brakes hot. What's the theory behind this? Like as the fluid brakes down or absorbs water or whatever it doesn't dissipate the heat as well and thus get's the disks hotter?
 

BeemerNut

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"thus gets the disks hotter?"
That'd be a NO, only thing with water absorbed brake fluid is it reduces the boiling point of brake fluid which will give a spongy brake pedal should you get the caliber's that hot. Hard to believe that issue. Corrosion buildup not allowing the pistons to retract in their bores more likely a problem, dragging brakes, lower gas mileage, elevated rotor temps as well shorter pad life mileage wise. Warped rotors, that may be an issue on certain brands of vehicles and models of vehicles, this Rover have warped rotor issues in general by other owners? Turned rotors due to warp issues usually increases the warp problem as machining has reduced the rotor's iron mass but not the amount of heat absorbed by them, bingo warped rotor again issues 500 miles later. Repair it agin Sam, customer pays again Sam.
You an aggressive driver or one on the brakes all the time on long downhill mountain roads?
Get them good and hot then play submarine chilling them?
I'd be careful swapping out brake fluid with synthetic or silicone fluid vs required by OEM fluids not being compatible with the rubber seals and hoses in the braking system. A rather costly oops, just saying. System flush every two years is cheaper than replacing damaged brake parts.
Must add, those dealership 80, 90K mile services I do not trust the work done but signed off as fluids changed, customer billed.
End of lease 60K by dealership on my 95 D1 they charged the Doctor every fluid changed but not performed. Brake flush, nope rubber nipples covering the bleeders hidden under the under seal from the factory, 5 spd, front and rear diffs plus transfer case drain and refilled, again no but billed. Do not trust a piece of paper it's written on, better used as toilet paper. My case photos of the items on vehicle which were "full service" paperwork by dealership were sent to LR of North America. They LRNA nailed them on billing several other LR owners, "work not performed but billed". Start fresh any new to you vehicles. .....~~=o&o>......
 
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p_f_m

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You know I'm not 100% sure it's actually been changed. ... ..So I'm not actually sure it's been changed as part of the 90k.
...
That said what's the theory behind this? I've always been a change your brake fluid kind of guy to prevent the rubber breakdown and overall crap buildup in the system,.... What's the theory behind this?

Well first off the only brake fluid service interval I am aware of is 2yr/24k miles. Anything over and you are pushing it, especially if the car has been used in humid and/or hot climate.
Brake Fluid is a moisture magnet. Moisture deteriorates the fluid and that causes loss of pressure at the calipers not allowing them to push firmly on to the rotors while braking.

I believe the RR takes a DOT4 fluid. Do not use DOT 3 or 5.1. I dont think there is anything special about oem fluid but its up to you what you feel comfortable using.

Do you feel the shake in the steering wheel only ? or in the brake pedal also ?
If brake pedal also then you should definitely do a brake fluid service especially if you dont know the history.
 

BeemerNut

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Well first off the only brake fluid service interval I am aware of is 2yr/24k miles. Anything over and you are pushing it, especially if the car has been used in humid and/or hot climate.
I'd agree 2yr/24K miles a good guide to follow changing out the brake fluid but how many people really do that timed or mileage scheduled maintenance?

Accelerated moisture absorption in the braking systems my opinion you have the auto makers (bean counters) to thank when they introduced plastic master cylinder reservoirs vs metal. Ever see a Windex bottle partially collapsed never opened, water moisture escaping through the plastic container. Oh wait, water moisture entering through the plastic master cylinder reservoir, here's a bit of news.
Add the rubber square ring seals in the brake calipers plus rubber brake lines total surface area in square/ inches absorbing moisture. Add those playing submarine with their LR's, no wonder braking systems have rust, corrosion failure problems.

Moisture deteriorates the fluid and that causes loss of pressure at the calipers not allowing them to push firmly on to the rotors while braking.

Can you please explain what causes as well where this "loss of pressure" is happening at and going?
Not to bust your chops I just needed to learn something new like this above condition?

I recall water starts boiling around 401*F under 250 psi as example pressure used numbers as brake line pressure on a disc braked vehicle.
Unless your calipers are that hot your not going to boil the moisture saturated brake fluid under` that pressure.
Hot brake calipers above 212*F under zero brake line pressure (minus the residual line pressure check valve in braking systems) your just about to boil the moisture hence expanding to steam then you'll have a spongy brake pedal once applied compressing steam back down to water again into a liquid mass again.
Compressing a gas yes you can, any liquid no, any solid no again.
(liquids and solids will compress ever so slightly when dealing at the molecular scale of materials but that's not a consideration dealing with this topic).

Also a "soft pedal feel" from the four rubber flex lines supplying fluid to all four brake calipers especially if they are old becoming soft with age and after millions of times hose subjected to high pressures down to zero again every time the brakes are applied.

Using "OEM LR overpriced brake fluid only" sure adds to the dealerships profits.

Synthetic brake fluids (silicon) years ago used to attack and swell up brake hoses to a point of total blockage not allowing fluid under low pressure (brake shoe return springs) to return fluid back to the master cylinder reservoir hence dragging or locked up wheels. Applied brakes the pressure swelled up the hoses allowing fluid to flow and operate the wheel cylinders.
Big warning not to mix or "upgrade" to silicon fluid the which to this day depending on manufactures specs and hoses with warnings to NOT TO USE silicon.
Any petroleum based produce be it an oil or solvent entered into a brake system is the DEATH of any and all the rubber components. Massive replacement of all rubber components, flushing hard lines plus cleaning every part and caliper before rebuilding, a rather costly $$$ mistake......~~=o&o>.......
 

Ruper

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I'm suffering thru the same issues. Especially when I barley press the brake pedal. Serviced fluid some time ago so that is out, less that 7K ago as I did with last service and I am due a service again. I had replace my rotors all 4 when I first got her with 95K on the clock. I did nor go with land rover discs just got some off Rock Auto. I assume mine warped as I had come off a long trip home and when I got home the road were flooded from tides coming over the road, and I could not avoid the puddle so in we went.
I will be changing the front rotors, or getting the original pair I had retained turned, and this might not be cheaper but better than cheap rotors (considering post about turning the old ones understood.
As far as slotted drilled rotors my understanding is that if you do any 4 wheeling you should probably avoid slotted rotors from mud getting into them illegibly, no experience wht that, but I saw on D3UK.
Since fairly mew I though that it was maybe the ball joints or tie rod ends. Changed those and it still remains.So I can tell you its not Upper or lower BJ's or tie rods involved. I only have shakes in the steering wheel, however I was thinking that maybe a stuck caliper might be the issue.
1. Anything I can do to narrow the issue to rotors or calipers? Other than using a dial micro to see if they are warped as I dont have anything to turn the rotors with to measure.
2. Anything I can do to temporarily help the calipers to see if the issue goes away to see if the calipers are the issue?
3. Anything I can do to fix a sticky caliper vice replacing?

More info both front left/right pads look to be worn same amount, checked when doing BJs.
Any suggestions on good reasonably priced calipers?
 

BeemerNut

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Besides left and right rotor wobble you can also have a condition where the rotor has swelled or thicker spots vs normal thickness of the rotors especially vented vs solid.
You by chance come to a hard stop from highway or down hill mountain driving ending up in water deep enough to submerge part of the rotor? It happened to the wife a forced exit off the highway due to flooding conditions ahead and she motored into deep water submerging part of the hot rotor. Pedal pulse with some steering wheel kickback due to a swelled rotor, actually both fronts, drum rears not an issue.
Mic the rotor thickness all around as well check for wobble left and right, this with lug nuts securing the rotor hat to the hub unless they are bolted up separately to the hubs, kookie lookie time nto knowing your vehicle model and type.
A SKIN CUT just to have full contact not cutting the rotors down. I hate cut rotors, palm sander with sandpaper, rotor slowing turning while in low range establishing a fresh finish before replacing pads. All pad contact points to calipers cleaned and properly lubed with special high temp ceramic lube?
....................................................................................................................................
At 82K miles use with solid rotors on the 95 D1, they will go 100K and higher miles without any issues, never cut......~~=o&o>......
 

Steve Taylor

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Purchased CPO at 50k mi. Brakes wobbled at 83k, replaced with aftermarket rotors and pads. Wobble showed up with a vengeance 2k miles later. My mechanic (company mechanic here at work) did the job again but with Rover parts. 2 k miles later the wobble is terrible. Other than take it to the Stealership what's a fella to do? Mechanic assures me he hand torques the lugs the second time to spec.

Stumped
 

BeemerNut

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This a known issue your model LR? Any reviews with a solution solving these problems with "better aftermarket" rotors than what LR is selling? From India as least one step above made in China in parts quality?

The 89 3/4 ton maximum length Dodge vans had rotor issues be it new OEM or aftermarket rotors and pads with shaking stops. Turned rotors shaking issuses now under 100 miles.

Once while in Canada three weeks out in the bush no contact to the outside world the wife with her free oil changes by Ford told her she "needed new brake pads NOW!"
They turned the rotors their normal requirement on the vehicle taking off a massive cut to the rotors down to the legal minimum thickness instead of readjusting cutters to the minimum amount removed for cleanup only. Bingo warped rotors in under 500 miles later. I was pissed Ford's tactic on a woman stunt pulled and at $473 bill. Ended up new rotors and pads all around, my money and time also making sure pins and sliders were cleaned and properly lubed which Ford skipped this proces. Pad replacements with sanded only rotors good to go zero issues vs turned rotors.
Being a licensed aircraft mechanic, radial engine shop rebuilding, machine shop background the past 52 years nobody touches our vehicles.

End of 60K lease the LR had new rotors and pads installed, rotors are still on it 21 years and 84K miles later with zero issues never allowing turned rotors, it stops smoothly.

Newer LR's put on a lot of weight over the years, my opinion their R & D did not doing their homework plus dealing with "Bean Counters" and higher up only looking at their max profits first is now the results having braking issues. Make it cheap as possible, charge the highest sales amount.

Reminds me of Mercedes that has been living off their name made many many years ago, fast forward Mercedes has been in the race with LR to see who's at the bottom of the list with the most amount of vehicle issues and problems. Price does not reflect quality gained.....~~=o&o>......
 
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