Looking to buy this LR4, but rattle at cold start. Goes away when warm...

Alchern

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Hello everyone,

I've been looking to purchase a LR4 for years. I live in Canada, and finally found a 2016 LUX with HD package. Approx 65k miles. It's been very well maintained and taken care of, however I had a PBI done today. The shop recommends a passenger side valve cover seal replacement (very mild leak), a new water pump assembly, a new vacuum pump (mild leak), and an updated factory maintenance service (oil change, transfer gearbox fluid change, rear diff fluid change, brake fluid change). The current owner is willing to take care of all of this before the sale. However, my biggest concern is the rattle that is apparent at cold start up. I have attached video. Indy JLR shop thinks either supercharger isolator, water pump (which is going to be changed anyway), or timing chains, but they will need to investigate to determine cause ($149 CND/hr). Any thoughts based on the video? I really would like to purchase this vehicle as a 2016 LUX with HD is an extreme rarity up here, and I really need a new vehicle (I know, the worst time to buy used). Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


Rattle noise link:

20220105_095406.jpg20220105_090438.jpg
 

ktm525

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caveat not sure what supercharger rattle sounds like but that sounded somewhat like chains to me. Negotiate based on what the shop tells you. A chain/guides job by a good indy will cost $5-7k canadian.
 

Alchern

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Thank you for reply - yes, the shop said it would be around 7K for chains. Do timing chains rattle during cold start up and then produce less sound when the vehicle warms up, typically? That seems to be the case. Hopefully they can diagnose the issue quickly and I can decide from there what to do. The seller seems to be willing to negotiate based on all the work required, but I'm not sure a timing chain job will be in the cards.
 

mm3846

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chains will rattle more on warm startup, and rattle less cold. the best test is to listen for the first few seconds on a warm startup, you'll hear the slap.

these motors are loud AF bc of the injectors but there's definitely something else going on there.
 

jlglr4

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I definitely hear what sounds like the supercharger isolator (intermittent, sounds kind of like marbles), but that‘s not the loudest sound in your video. Not sure what that loudest clacking is, but doesn’t really sound like chains to me. Could just be the HP fuel pumps getting picked up more by the mic - the fuel pumps are loud. Hard to tell from a video, but doesn‘t really sound like chains to me.
 

ryanjl

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Chain noises are present on cold startup, but from what I have read a key diagnostic is a diesel-like noise when accelerating from a stop once the engine is warm.

You can pull the oil cap and see the timing chain right inside there. Carefully use something to check the chain tension.
 

Red Top Engine

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Check the vibrations on the main serpentine belt tensioners using a stethoscope. Hydraulic chain tensioners are plausible culprits.
 

LR4 2011

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Hello, I have a 5.0 L 2011 LR4 and I have a slight rattle from the tension arms wearing (chain are not stretching) but it does not sound this loud.

Look in the valve cover oil fill neck and see if you can take a long flat tip screw driver and flex the timing chain.
The car performs well but has some poor quality parts from JLR.
Parts are expensive but shopping around will get better prices. Be aware of Aftermarket brands, some are better than others..

Sounds like a possible oil pump problem with lower bearings (Rod). I don't know what a failed super charger sounds like but the water pump will not make that sound when it fails
 

wallyyfm

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I would not buy that truck with that sound sorry.
 

Alchern

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Thank you for all of the replies. The shop disconnected the supercharger and noise persisted (although slightly less). Slight noise from water pump pulley, but noise persisted. Diagnosed timing chain as the issue. I have several videos of all of the above, for anyone who is interested. The shop is a very highly respected JLR indy shop in Toronto. Here is what was written: "DURING OUR DIAGNOSIS WE FIRST REMOVED THE SUPERCHARGER DRIVE BELT AND INSPECTED THE SUPERCHARGER ISOLATOR WEAR. WE FOUND THAT IT IS SLIGHTLY WORN AND THERE IS SOME PLAY THAT MAY BE CONTRIBUTING TO THE ENGINE NOISE. ATER STARTING THE VEHICLE WITH THE SUPERCHARGER BELT REMOVED THE MAIN ENGINE NOISE WAS STILL PRESENT. WE PROCEEDED TO REMOVE THE MAIN DRIVE BELT ELIMINATING ANY OF THE DRIVE BELT ACCESSORIES INCLUDING THE WATER PUMP AND AFTER STARING THE VEHICLE THE NOISE WAS STILL PRESENT. THE WATER IMPELLER SHAFT IS WORN AND DOES HAVE MOVEMENT THAT MAY ALSO BE CONTRIBUTING THE CERTAIN NOISES AT IDLE, HOWEVER IT IS NOT THE PREDOMINANT NOISE. UPON FURTHER TESTING AND INSPECTION IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THAT THE ENGINE NOISE IS COMING FROM THE ENGINE TIMING CHAIN AND RELATED TIMING COMPONENTS. WHEN A SLIGHT INCREASE IN IDLE RPM IS APPLIED AND SOON AFTER IT IS REMOVED THE ENGINE NOISE DISAPPEARS FOR A WHILE, HOWEVER IT DOES EVENTUALLY RETURN. THE TIMING CHAIN AND RELATED TIMING COMPONENT ARE WORN AND REQUIRE REPLACEMENT. WE ALSO RECOMMEND REPLACING THE SUPERCHARGER ISOLATOR AND WATER PUMP."

They quoted around 10K CDN (about $7900 USD) to do the following:

1) Valve Cover Seals (passenger side already had a slight leak and we knew it needed repair)
2) Vacuum Pump (again, a slight leak and we knew it needed repair)
3) Complete timing chain and gears job ("REMOVE AND REPLACE TIMING CHAINS, CHAIN GUIDES AND TENSIONERS , PERFORM ENGINE TIMING PROCEDURE , REPLACE ALL INTAKE AND EXHAUST VVT UNITS , FILTERS AND FASTENERS, REPLACED OIL SPRAYERS, FRICTION WASHERS , VVT FILTERS , TIMING COVER , COOLANT PUMP , REPLACE SUPER CHARGER ISOLATOR, REPLACE ALL TORQUE FASTENERS , REPLACE FRONT & REAR COOLANT MANIFOLDS, PERFORM OIL CHANGE.")
4) Supercharger Isolator
5) Water Pump
6) Full service for age / mileage: A) Oil (obviously); B) Transfer gearbox fluid; C) Rear diff fluid; D) Brake fluid.
7) Install engine block heater and cord

The seller seems to be willing to cover this large expense and still sell for asking price of $44K CDN (approx $35K USD). The indy shop has done PBI's on a few other LR4's for me, that I've been interested in, and they said not to buy any of them. The owner does say this one has been well maintained and looked after. The seller has completed frequent oil changes and the vehicle has been babied. It has two sets of rims and good rubber for both winter and summer. The seller did note this noise to JLR in the recent past while still under CPO (just expired), but JLR said the engine noise was normal and nothing was wrong. Given these are so hard to find (2016, LUX, HD package) here is Canada, would you recommend purchasing with many of these common failure points repaired? Other common issues, such as suspension, brakes, etc, all seem to be in great shape. Thanks again for any insight. I've been looking for the right LR4 for years now... I'm starting to give up hope, but I think this still could be the one... if repaired.
 

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