LR, please, Please and Please, Do not mess with LR4.

[manoftaste]

Land Rover/Tata, please and please do not mess with Discovery/LR4

I agree with you. It pains me to see how their products are changing so much (for the worse in my opinion). As it stands now, the new 14 LR4 and the Range Rover are the only Land Rovers I care for (that are sold here). I can accept the fact that Tata wants to bring in more money by offering "non-typical" Land Rover products (new Range Rover Sport, Evoque, ect.) but the LR4 is one in which I had anticipated sticking closely to the original recipe. I was shocked to learn that the low range transfer case would not be standard. Also, not sure why they went with the rotary knob, as I think the traditional lever or the joy stick found in the new Sport are way better choices. Otherwise, I love the new LR4 and I will probably end up buying one in the next couple years.

I just wish Land Rover would not mess with their traditional vehicles and keep them more for the traditional Land Rover demographic. If they want to introduce all new models to fill the void needed by the "bling bling" group then so be it, they have my blessing. Just don't mess with "real" Land Rovers.

I was actually just talking to my sales person last weekend about the availability on the 14 LR4 while our dealer was hosting a Land Rover off-road event. He told me that they were only initially allocated two trucks, and that they were not due in until the end of January. So I am pleasantly surprised to see that they are actually making there way to dealers now. Almost makes me want to go order a new one with heavy duty package!

I pretty much agree with everything that you have said.

I have been meaning to write for a long time about the change in direction for LR4 (and Land Rovers in general) and its been brewing for a while so today I thought I start something.

Let me begin by saying that I am the type of owner/customer who may or may not take his truck off roading (although I'd like to at least once) but takes comfort in the fact (and would gladly pay for it) that my truck is built like a tank, that my truck has rear locker when conditions call for it, that my truck is not blingfully styled, rather its tastefully designed, in a minimalist fashion, in a sort of Audi' understated designs vs the in-your-face BMW/Mercedes styles. I would much rather have the 18 inch wheels as standard knowing that there are laws of physics that you just can't deny no matter how much technology you put in (by all means offer the 19s, 22''s or 23''s for other customers, but give us a choice at least, please). I feel in control when my hand is resting on a gear shifter knob, I hate the rotary dial (I have used it while driving loaner Jags)

When I bought my LR4, I looked hard and gave serious thought to the new Range Rover (2013). But it was LR4 which won the decision, but it wasn't because of the more traditional reasons (kids, etc). More on that later.

Please correct me if I am wrong but LR4 is the only SUV on the planet that has integrated body-frame design, and I feel and enjoy its benefits and every bit of its attributes every day during my daily commute (wether on the freeway or in the city) as well as on long trips. It feels rock solid, carved out of stone, it feels one piece, it feels secure and safe, it feels luxurious. Sure this integrated body-frame design means extra/added weight, but so be it. I dont want my truck to be flimsy and light in weight, which brings me to the next point, weight of the vehicle.

The madness with reducing the weight of LRs: What is up with this madness? I understand that the regulations are calling for strict emissions and gas mileage, etc. But this is a luxury/prestige brand, and an SUV/truck designed for a purpose. Customers who buy Lexus 570 (6000 pounds of metal) and Rolls Royces or large luxury sedans such as BWM 750 or Audi A8 are less concerned about weight and mileage and are more concerned about comfort and ride quality, generally speaking (I could be totally off here, maybe those customers are concerned about these things as well among comfort etc, also I am not anti-green in any way and I understand and support the whole idea.) But this is why I like my truck being heavy: I like it heavy because it feels well settled on the freeway at high speeds. Once the momentum is gained, all that same weight helps the vehicle cut thru the wind with ease on an open road/freeway. The heavy weight of the vehicle keeps is stable on the tarmac during high wind/gusty conditions as well as when an 18-wheeler comes flying from the opposite direction and passes by you like a fast moving train, with all that turbulence. All that weight keeps you well settled on the ground, no matter what.

But I never hear, read, or watch anything about the integrated body-frame design in ads, if any. Land Rover really is way behind in marketing on LR4. Perhaps related, on a side note about the integrated body-frame design among other features, I am in the trade of advertising (TV), as a matter of fact, back in september we finished part of the launch campaign for the RR Sport (the "Driven" mini-series airing on FOX Sports). I hear that the LR4 sales have been down lately. Well this is my contention, I dont think that Land Rover has put in any damn effort in really truely marketing their best in class SUV called LR4 which competes with the SUVs outsides its class. I have not seen any TV ads at all, maybe once in the last several years, and I am in the TV business. I have not seen any ads (print, web, or TV) talking about the integrated bod-frame design and its benefits, its strength, its comfort, sure-footed ride, or comparisons with other SUVs, etc. I have seen very very few ads over the years here and there but nothing really as compelling as other makes and brands or LR's own FFRR or Sport. Despite the fact that LR4 is an excellent value in pretty much every aspect when compared with other SUVs in its class (save the reliability "perception"), LR has failed to market it as such. No wonder sales are not as desired. Why is it then when people who drive one, generally end up buying one (here you go, a root idea for a campaign). Really, personally I had never owned one, but when I first test drove LR3, I was sold.

A few months ago, one of my colleges at work was looking into SUVs (migrating from an Audi A6) and he mentioned that he had narrowed his search down to a Land Cruiser for his growing family. He knows I owned an LR4 and I suggested to him that he should at least test drive one. After test driving the LR4 at his local dealership, he told me that he was pleasantly surprised and gave it a 9 out of 10 rating. He loved the creamy smooth, refined, and well composed ride in comparison's to the Land Cruiser's. My point is that LR, in my humble opinion, has never really tried selling LR4s that hard.

The Engines: If Tata wants to keep up with regulations, they could come up with a different product to keep up with the desired average numbers, just like Ford or GMC do. They don't put a 3.0 V6 in their F150. I could not care less if Land Rover put a 1.4 liter engine in their Evoque, but please do not mess with the LR4' V8. That V8 is barely enough for that truck, and now they expect us to pay the same amount for a weaker V6? I would rather have a normally aspirated V8 that did not have to stress or work harder to pull all that weight vs a supercharged V6 that is constantly working hard to keep up (but I could be technically wrong about v6 so please feel free to correct me). My experience is based on owning an LR3 HSE for six years with long trips on freeways (steep grades, high altitudes, etc) and stop and go city driving (both New York and Los Angeles). I used my move from NY to LA to do a nice cross country drive in my LR3.

My point is that if I can get a powerful engine as an option in Grand Jeep Cherokee (like 5.7 or 6.4 liter hemi any one?), how come we don't get a choice. By all means feel free to strip off LR4 of its dual transfer case and rear locker and V8 for the soccer moms, but please, please let the V8 be there as an option. When I had five or six people in my LR3, the engine felt overworked and the truck felt heavy and less powerful, but with LR4 its quite the opposite. Recently I had five adults in my car on a trip that required freeways and some city driving. I was pleasantly surprised at how the truck pulled like there was no extra weight in the vehicle. As a matter fact the ride felt more smooth and refined. LR4 is first vehicle I have ever owned which feels great in term of ride quality and available power when loaded with extra weight.

Better yet, please offer us as an option the amazing TD V8. That is the just the right engine for the current LR4 design/weight, period. I would gladly shell out a few thousand more for that engine. Combined with the 8-speed transmission, the effortlessness of that engine alone would be more than match for LR4's weight.

Continued...

 

[manoftaste]

Continued from above:

LR4 minimalist/product design: It is a timeless design. McGovern did a good job of refreshing LR3 with LR4 (except the part of aft of the rear wheel well, it gives a feeling of funny car' tail end sometimes. Recycling of rear quarter panel may have led to that design problem/solution). Overall the design team did a good job of interior upgrades from LR3, except for a few flimsy looking pieces and inconsistent gaps in between wood trim, metal and leather pieces/panels. The design of the vehicle as a whole is perfect and minimalist/Product design. Please do not destroy this timeless design. Its iconic. You can spot an LR4 from far away and it does not blend in with other designs/styles around it on the street. Its the best combination/compromise of design/form and function. You can refresh a few things every now and then but please oh please do not bling it up to death. Or if you do to please those soccer moms, at least stick to your DNA roots by offering both options. The non-bling version will cost you less. I am not big on the "happy" face lift of the 2014 LR4, it takes away the simple, no-nonsense grille that has been in the past Land Rovers. Its too big of an element to be on the front of the truck and doesn't look good in pictures, I'll have to see it in real life. But thats all a matter of personal tastes/choice as well.

Adaptive Suspension: I want one. This would be a perfect option for the LR4 current design dynamics (which I like for various useful reasons and has been one of the reasons for not choosing the Range Rover). This is available in the 2014 Range Rover. Its basically a computer sensing the driving dynamics 500 times a second and adjusting the firmness of the suspension, so no more compromises. On a freeway a smooth buttery ride (which I feel it was better in my LR3 due to softer suspension. The LR3 just floated over the light bumps and unevenness at freeway speeds, my LR4 get tossed around a bit more due to firmness I think.) and when driven aggressively, the suspension would react and firm itself up for tighter dynamics, etc. As of now I feel that my LR3 (same 19" wheels due to being HSE) felt more secured and planted at freeway speeds, specially during rainy conditions, due to softer suspension setup. My LR4 feels a bit firmer and hence less planted on wet road conditions at freeway speeds.

Now, why I did not choose the newly designed 2013 Range Rover over LR4.

First thing that turned me off was the weight reduction. I just personally like my SUV to be heavy with an appropriate engine in it. If I want to drive a sports car, I'd get in one. I didn't like certain interior design touches that are more suited for a cadillac. I did not like the fact that there is very little cargo space due to the tapering roof line into the rear. The rear seats are now less high (or stadium like). And no more gear shifter knob. And above all ****** looking 19" wheel option vs great looking 21" and 22" wheels. I want the 19 inch wheels (thats for me is the bare minimum rubber for such a vehicle). I just laugh at videos of Range Rover (or sport) in offroad courses with that flimsy 2 inch of side walls. They can advertise all they want, but laws of physics tell you otherwise. And some other reasons that I cannot remember right now.

Even today I stopped by a dealership to look at the 2014 Range Rover again that I might like it, and I have a test drive scheduled for tomorrow. This is in preparation for possible next year purchase if LR get their **** together and take of care of an on going matter with my current LR4 problems (story for some other time and in the event the new SCV6 in LR4 just sucks big time after real world tests. But I'll tell you guys, I was just not really feeling the Range Rover when I sat in it today at the dealership (it was an autobiography edition, with close to $170k tag including a $30k markup, not kidding. If decided to go for the Range Rover, I will get the supercharged v8 which is about 99k MSRP I think). Unless tomorrow's test drive proves to be so damn good that I decide to forget about all of the above that I dont like about the 2013/14 RR, as of now I feel like that I am being forced to look else where (as my current LR4 has had series of ongoing issues since day one, really. They just try to keep fixing it, and I have repeatedly asked for replacement but the corporate has not decided on it yet.) Also its been more than a year now so I am not even sure if I can ask for lemon law application etc. Really badly handled on LR' part, but I love the drive of LR4, maybe thats what LR banks on, and maybe thats also why they didn't get the business of my friend at work who was looking into Land Cruiser and then was sold on LR4 but went with another brand as he did mention his concerns about reliability. And I have only been dealing with initial build quality issues. I think its pretty loyal of me to keep all my endless trips to the service, phone calls to corporate etc hidden from my friend at work After all I do like the brand as the second time owner (first ever Land Rover as LR3 in 2006 and second Land Rover as LR4 in 2013). And I do want the brand to succeed.

So as of now as I said I feel like I am being forced to look into other brands. The Lexus GX 470 is too ugly for my taste (overly styled and the design will not last for long). The LX-570? Too bling and again, overly styled. I hear the Defender may make a comeback. Thats great off road, but I doubt it can ever compete with the refinement and freeway ride of LR4 or could be as comfortable as my LR4 for daily commute.

So what now? Not sure. Lexus LX 570 (although a bit too big and blingified) maybe my only option. Range Rover doesn't have 7 seats or as much cargo room. 570 really has no contender in that sense but LR4 in its current form is the closest. LR4 could really eat lexus' lunch but Land Rover would not allow for that to happen as this will undermine its flagship Range Rover. Maybe Land Rover will finally start listening and leave LR4 as is.

My ideal LR4 would be with the following: TDV8 with eight speed transmission, Adaptive dynamics, 18 inch wheels with same good designs as the 19 inch (I love my 2013 Lux wheel design, a perfect blend of elegance and sportiness/aggressiveness), better build quality (they should really get it right by now, its been almost ten years for this design) and better packaging. Less treating LR4 by Land Rover as a red-head step child and hence offering options/upgrades similar to Range Rover (like offer rich and good looking wood trim vs ****** looking less lush trim stuff thats in the current LR4. If all of the above brings the cost to even 100k, I'd be willing to pay and prefer the LR4 over the similarly priced Range Rover or Lexus LX-570, and more over would be willing to deal with LR reliability issues. What else do you want, Land Rover?

And while on the subject of reliability, what irks me the most is the fact that even though the Lexus LX-570 may have the similar electronic wizardry installed as its counter part Land Rover products, its just more reliable, or in perception at least. Why is it so? This is not 1985 anymore. Why cannot LR make it their mission to improve the reliability perception by hitting this department hard? Instead of diluting their brand by making it more like other cars on the market if they simply worked, and I mean worked ******* the initial build and reliability areas, that alone would improve sales. They need to understand that one of the major reasons why many many people who want to buy and experience Land Rover products but end up paying for another brand is because of their being uncomfortable of this whole LR reliability issues/perception. Hence the low resale value of LR cars and the reason for the depreciation like a falling rock. Whatever it takes, wether its changing vendors or forcing them to design parts stronger/more reliable, whatever it is they need to do, Land Rover should really concentrate on this area and get this whole thing sorted once and for good.

Sorry for this long wall of text, but I just wanted to take my time and express my thoughts and concerns. I have even thought about writing an open letter to Gerry McGovern and/or related figures. This should alone convey that I love the brand and would hate to see it become and get diluted just like any other brand out there and hence lose its uniqueness. I would not mind LR coming out with new, smaller, lighter, blingified models/versions for their new target market, as long as they leave the originality that Land Rovers have been known for alone.

Thanks.

 

[Buppies]

Having owned a new 2011 LR4 and now a used 2010 RRS both with V8s there is quality issues with the brand but it appears they are working on them. Also have a Jag XJL with supercharged V6 very satisfying and quality greatly improved. This six has plenty of power and great fuel mileage to boot. The 6 in the RRS would not deter me from buying one. The Jag is a 2013 by the way all wheel drive. Changing the four wheel drive system would change my buying thoughts however. The brake issues really confuse me though with the excuse of vehicle being heavy as to why brakes wear out so fast. How then can my 6800 pound dodge three quarter ton truck get 50000 mi plus before needing pads and the Land Rover brand not. Sometimes change is good sometimes not but for me Tata has not gone off the reservation yet.I am not one who is going to take a 70000 dollar vehicle off road where it could get scratched torn up, work truck is for that. If I'm looking for pulling power to haul my trailers diesel is the way to go and I believe LR is going to do that in 2015. If they do I will be there

 

[jrgreen5859]

Go drive a scv6 before you get so worked up, it really isn't that bad. In our 2014 lr4 it seems to have enough power for us.


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[mbw]

Go drive a scv6 before you get so worked up, it really isn't that bad. In our 2014 lr4 it seems to have enough power for us.


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Have you driven a LR4 with the 5.0 V8? If so, how did you think they compared?

 

[jrgreen5859]

Yes the v8 has more punch and more of a grumble, but the scv6 does have more power vs our 2008 lr3 v8.


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[Count Laszlo]

I'm concerned about the brand as well. When my LR is due for a trade, I'm not really sure if I'll remain in the brand. I'm disappointed in the new products. They are okay, but not product differentiators anymore. One could easily horizontal shop and stray to another brand now. It never used to be that way. I think LR blew it.

 

[Finlayforprez]

I'm concerned about the brand as well. When my LR is due for a trade, I'm not really sure if I'll remain in the brand. I'm disappointed in the new products. They are okay, but not product differentiators anymore. One could easily horizontal shop and stray to another brand now. It never used to be that way. I think LR blew it.

Hey Count!

How are you? How's the RRS? All this makes me so happy I went with a 2013 LR4. I think when I am ready to trade in, I'd likely get a G and modify the heck out of it.

Talk to you soon.

-David

 

[Count Laszlo]

Hey Count!

How are you? How's the RRS? All this makes me so happy I went with a 2013 LR4. I think when I am ready to trade in, I'd likely get a G and modify the heck out of it.

Talk to you soon.

-David

Me too. I think when my truck is ready to traded in I may move to another brand. Only the FFRR appeals to me now. We'll see. The G is a great alternative. Strange how much LR changed in such a short time. And I think the LR5 is going to the ultimate mall mobile.

 

[Finlayforprez]

Me too. I think when my truck is ready to traded in I may move to another brand. Only the FFRR appeals to me now. We'll see. The G is a great alternative. Strange how much LR changed in such a short time. And I think the LR5 is going to the ultimate mall mobile.

The G is just so much $$$ , but after 30 years have kept it's iconic design. The 2013 is brilliant - love the interior and the fact they have not rounded it and made it into a rounded ML/GL looking thing.

A friend of mine from the NCLR group just sold his 2010 RR SC and ordered a G63 AMG - fully loaded. I can't wait to see it when he takes delivery in June/July (it's all hand built).

I would definitely consider a certified pre owned model in a few years.