danrhiggins
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- Jan 2, 2014
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Hey, Folks, it has been 18 months since I made the switch from the LR4 to the Land Cruiser. From time to time I am asked how I would compare the two. This most recently happened in a thread on the excellent IH8MUD forum for 200 series Land Cruiser owners which reminds me a LOT of this awesome forum. So I thought I would share here what I did there with maybe a bit more elaboration. Then wrap up with some comments on the Discovery 5 - which, BTW, I am starting to see them (OK, maybe 1 or 2) out and about here in the south Denver area.
(Also, I still have two of the OEM Land Rover trailer hitch receivers and also a full set of unused, tan floor mats. I would love to sell these for cheap to anyone in the greater Denver area.)
LC vs LR4. Hmmm. The LR4 was my first venture into exploring off road and where I learned to drive off-road. Having the LR4 opened up a whole new world for me. (It helped that we live in Colorado!). I owned it for just over two years and put 55K miles on it. Much of that was off-pavement and most of the rest was on road trips throughout the West. (I don’t commute.). I loved the body style. I loved the cargo area with the fold flat 2nd and 3rd row. So incredibly versatile. I liked the functionality of the Nav system better than the LC. (The LR4 allowed you to upload gpx files and had a great off-road mode though the screen was smaller.). The adjustable height suspension really was useful both for access/loading and for going off road. Also a nicer ride. Somewhat better approach and departure angles and a tighter turning radius. I took off-road driving training from one of the best (Bill Burke out of Grand Junction, CO) and from one of Land Rover’s professional trainers at Overland Expo. All in the LR4. Learning to use low range, off road modes, etc. I drove numerous off-road trails in CO, UT and AZ and the LR4 just felt better than when I try to do this with the LC. Wonderful memories. The LR4 was definitely my first love.
(Before I discuss what wasn’t as awesome about the LR4 and what I like about the LC, it is useful to understand that I had the 2014 model LR4. Those of you with earlier models had that great V8 with over 400 ft lbs of torque and more horsepower and an old fashion shifter rather than the frustrating paddle shifters which are awkward when you are off-road and making a lot of full turns of the wheel.)
As much as I loved the LR4 had a significant issue when it came to towing a larger trailer. And my wife and I wanted a larger trailer. It wasn’t so much the 6,000 lbs GVWR but the 800+ lbs of hitch weight that was the question. As some of you know I tried a number of alternatives including after market, bolt on hitch receivers. But that led to the need to put the spare on the roof or in the cargo area or get a rear bumper. All more than I really wanted to do just to make the trailer hitch work.
Then came the concerns about long term reliability. Having to replace the battery that powered the (annoying) start/stop eco “feature” for $600 after two years. Knowing I would need to replace the compressor at about 65K given how much off-roading we did. And beginning to hear some squeaks and rattles that were likely due to going off road made me wonder how many miles I would be able to go with that vehicle and still get decent trade in value. Soooo... I began looking around.
So why the Land Cruiser. First, it is the closest thing I could find to the type of vehicle the LR4 is. Split tailgate. Very off-road capable. And, to be honest, when compared to the LR4 it seems to be simply a stronger, tougher tool for getting the job done. Where I loved the LR4, I respect the LC. I enjoyed the LR4 and was far more likely to take it out for a drive in the mountains - just because. But I trust the LC more. I fully expect to get 250K miles on the LC and that includes the off road driving (though that has moderated somewhat) and the towing. It was more expensive (nearly 80K) but it will last twice as long as any other vehicles in this class.
What do I like about this specific Land Cruiser? The 5.7L V8. Almost identical specs to the LR4 V8 in the 2013 and earlier models. But in the 2016 they also have the 8-speed transmission. And in Toyota’s case, they used the 8 speeds to extend the range downward. So first gear is significantly lower than on the 6-speed. As you move up the range the difference becomes less where 6th gear on the 8-speed essentially matches 4th gear on the 6-speed. And of course all LCs come with low range - which I use any time I’m on a road that isn’t “flat”. Moving to 4L on the LC enables the multi-terrain traction modes, CRAWL, Hill Descent, turn assist (would still prefer to have a tighter turning radius) and various off-road camera modes. But since I learned from various Land Rover training videos and sessions that there is nothing bad about driving in 4L if you aren’t going that fast and not overly concerned about optimizing MPG I might as well use it most the time I am off road. And it works great. Also, BTW, the LC transmission works much like the LR4 including that in manual mode you aren’t really forcing a specific gear but rather limiting how high the automatic transmission is allowed to shift. Very useful on the LR4 and the LC. So all of the transmission-related driving techniques (4L/S1 for steep descents, 4L and S3 for climbs, etc.) transfer over easily. But at least I don’t need to search for the paddle shifters on a windy trail! BTW, as you can imagine with the engine and transmission and the fact that the LC is even a bit heavier than the LR4, MPG sucks. It’s about the same as the 2013 and earlier LR4 models. If that matters. It doesn’t for me.
What about the suspension. Good and bad here. The adjustable height of the LR4 air suspension was very handy. Especially when my mother in law needed to get in and out of the LR4. (We don’t even attempt this with the LC.). And when camping out of the back of the LR4, it was great that it would auto-level. Same when towing (if they had just addressed the hitch weight issue.). But when it comes to modifications, it is much easier to do with the LC. It is common in Australia (where LCs are also very common in the outback) to upgrade the LC suspension to support expedition gear. In the Mideast the same is done to add armor to LCs. I did a 2” lift using stronger springs, better shocks and a matching UCA. The moved the standard 8.7” or so ground clearance of the stock LC to 10.7”. Coupled with the 285/65R18 E-rated KO2 (nearly 33”, some people have put 34” and larger) tires I was able to put on my ground clearance is at 11”. All the time. So if I’m driving a rutted road that is essentially flat but has a ridge down the middle, I can drive at 35MPH without it squawking at me or automatically lowering unless I slow down. The KDSS suspension system works well for what is intended. Articulation is very good. Also, because you can upgrade the suspension to stronger springs/coils, you can accommodate more weight. It may not be armor but a lot of folks put heavy bumpers and other off road or expedition gear on them. The Lexus model of the LC has adjustable height suspension (hydraulic-ish rather than air) but, again, it would be difficult to modify.
Interior? I really miss the cargo area of the LR4. Though I have put drawers in the LC, part of that was to create a sleeping platform that would work with the goofy fold and roll 2nd row seats. I removed the third row a week after I bought it as it just got in the way and doesn’t fold flat like the LR4. Neither does the 2nd row. Fortunately, the drawer system I had installed is at the same height as the 2nd row when the back is folded down and with a little work that has become the “sleeping platform”. Definitely not the versatility of the LR4 cargo area (everything behind the first row). But the LC has a wider interior so that helps. In fact, the LC is somewhat wider in girth but its external measurements are not really wider. That is because the LR4 has fenders, the LC does not. The LC has some nice comfort features in the interior. At least the 2nd row where the seats can move forward and back and tilt back. But I found the front seat of the LR4, especially ours which had the lumbar support, to be more comfortable than the LC.
Infotainment/Nav? I do miss the off-road mode of the LR4. Especially the ability to upload gpx files for trails. The LC is not better for highway stuff and has no off road mode. So I installed an iPad holder and use iPad based Navigation tools. Much better. When not supporting my iPad I use the floor-mounted support to hold a table I made. It serves as a platform for lunch, camera gear, etc. The one thing I do like about the LC is that it has Siri Hands Free. So I can control my iPhone even when it is stored away. And the LC has wireless charging which will be great when I get my next iPhone.
Other notable differences? My LR4 did not have adaptive cruise control (though later LR4 models had that option.). Actually very nice on road trips. The LC has auto High Beams like the LR4 but the headlights do not adjust left and right around curves. That would be nice on dark mountain roads.
If Land Rover had come out with an improved LR4 that addressed the tongue weight issue I probably would have remained with Land Rover. But they didn’t. The new “Discovery” is a travesty. And in the context of this thread, I hope Toyota doesn’t do to the LC what Land Rover did to the LR4/Discovery! People are not beginning to talk and speculate about the next generation Land Cruiser as the current one is rather long in tooth. The fear is that they will cave to the pressure to make something more “relevant” to people who never use it for adventure and the closest they come to rock crawling is accidentally driving over the curb. We’ll see. But in a few years, as the LR4s begin to die out and unless the Defender is what we hope it will be, the Land Cruiser may become the next best option - even if you have to buy a used one.
Wishing you all well. Again, some very fond memories from the experiences we had with the LR4 and many thanks to many of you on this forum who were so helpful during that time. Maybe we’ll cross paths on a trail some time! I would never hesitate to partner up with someone in an LR4! If you see a white LC on the trail (I have named it “The Yeti”) with orange Maxtrax and a shovel on the permanent roof rack, it is likely to be me. Say hello!
(Also, I still have two of the OEM Land Rover trailer hitch receivers and also a full set of unused, tan floor mats. I would love to sell these for cheap to anyone in the greater Denver area.)
LC vs LR4. Hmmm. The LR4 was my first venture into exploring off road and where I learned to drive off-road. Having the LR4 opened up a whole new world for me. (It helped that we live in Colorado!). I owned it for just over two years and put 55K miles on it. Much of that was off-pavement and most of the rest was on road trips throughout the West. (I don’t commute.). I loved the body style. I loved the cargo area with the fold flat 2nd and 3rd row. So incredibly versatile. I liked the functionality of the Nav system better than the LC. (The LR4 allowed you to upload gpx files and had a great off-road mode though the screen was smaller.). The adjustable height suspension really was useful both for access/loading and for going off road. Also a nicer ride. Somewhat better approach and departure angles and a tighter turning radius. I took off-road driving training from one of the best (Bill Burke out of Grand Junction, CO) and from one of Land Rover’s professional trainers at Overland Expo. All in the LR4. Learning to use low range, off road modes, etc. I drove numerous off-road trails in CO, UT and AZ and the LR4 just felt better than when I try to do this with the LC. Wonderful memories. The LR4 was definitely my first love.
(Before I discuss what wasn’t as awesome about the LR4 and what I like about the LC, it is useful to understand that I had the 2014 model LR4. Those of you with earlier models had that great V8 with over 400 ft lbs of torque and more horsepower and an old fashion shifter rather than the frustrating paddle shifters which are awkward when you are off-road and making a lot of full turns of the wheel.)
As much as I loved the LR4 had a significant issue when it came to towing a larger trailer. And my wife and I wanted a larger trailer. It wasn’t so much the 6,000 lbs GVWR but the 800+ lbs of hitch weight that was the question. As some of you know I tried a number of alternatives including after market, bolt on hitch receivers. But that led to the need to put the spare on the roof or in the cargo area or get a rear bumper. All more than I really wanted to do just to make the trailer hitch work.
Then came the concerns about long term reliability. Having to replace the battery that powered the (annoying) start/stop eco “feature” for $600 after two years. Knowing I would need to replace the compressor at about 65K given how much off-roading we did. And beginning to hear some squeaks and rattles that were likely due to going off road made me wonder how many miles I would be able to go with that vehicle and still get decent trade in value. Soooo... I began looking around.
So why the Land Cruiser. First, it is the closest thing I could find to the type of vehicle the LR4 is. Split tailgate. Very off-road capable. And, to be honest, when compared to the LR4 it seems to be simply a stronger, tougher tool for getting the job done. Where I loved the LR4, I respect the LC. I enjoyed the LR4 and was far more likely to take it out for a drive in the mountains - just because. But I trust the LC more. I fully expect to get 250K miles on the LC and that includes the off road driving (though that has moderated somewhat) and the towing. It was more expensive (nearly 80K) but it will last twice as long as any other vehicles in this class.
What do I like about this specific Land Cruiser? The 5.7L V8. Almost identical specs to the LR4 V8 in the 2013 and earlier models. But in the 2016 they also have the 8-speed transmission. And in Toyota’s case, they used the 8 speeds to extend the range downward. So first gear is significantly lower than on the 6-speed. As you move up the range the difference becomes less where 6th gear on the 8-speed essentially matches 4th gear on the 6-speed. And of course all LCs come with low range - which I use any time I’m on a road that isn’t “flat”. Moving to 4L on the LC enables the multi-terrain traction modes, CRAWL, Hill Descent, turn assist (would still prefer to have a tighter turning radius) and various off-road camera modes. But since I learned from various Land Rover training videos and sessions that there is nothing bad about driving in 4L if you aren’t going that fast and not overly concerned about optimizing MPG I might as well use it most the time I am off road. And it works great. Also, BTW, the LC transmission works much like the LR4 including that in manual mode you aren’t really forcing a specific gear but rather limiting how high the automatic transmission is allowed to shift. Very useful on the LR4 and the LC. So all of the transmission-related driving techniques (4L/S1 for steep descents, 4L and S3 for climbs, etc.) transfer over easily. But at least I don’t need to search for the paddle shifters on a windy trail! BTW, as you can imagine with the engine and transmission and the fact that the LC is even a bit heavier than the LR4, MPG sucks. It’s about the same as the 2013 and earlier LR4 models. If that matters. It doesn’t for me.
What about the suspension. Good and bad here. The adjustable height of the LR4 air suspension was very handy. Especially when my mother in law needed to get in and out of the LR4. (We don’t even attempt this with the LC.). And when camping out of the back of the LR4, it was great that it would auto-level. Same when towing (if they had just addressed the hitch weight issue.). But when it comes to modifications, it is much easier to do with the LC. It is common in Australia (where LCs are also very common in the outback) to upgrade the LC suspension to support expedition gear. In the Mideast the same is done to add armor to LCs. I did a 2” lift using stronger springs, better shocks and a matching UCA. The moved the standard 8.7” or so ground clearance of the stock LC to 10.7”. Coupled with the 285/65R18 E-rated KO2 (nearly 33”, some people have put 34” and larger) tires I was able to put on my ground clearance is at 11”. All the time. So if I’m driving a rutted road that is essentially flat but has a ridge down the middle, I can drive at 35MPH without it squawking at me or automatically lowering unless I slow down. The KDSS suspension system works well for what is intended. Articulation is very good. Also, because you can upgrade the suspension to stronger springs/coils, you can accommodate more weight. It may not be armor but a lot of folks put heavy bumpers and other off road or expedition gear on them. The Lexus model of the LC has adjustable height suspension (hydraulic-ish rather than air) but, again, it would be difficult to modify.
Interior? I really miss the cargo area of the LR4. Though I have put drawers in the LC, part of that was to create a sleeping platform that would work with the goofy fold and roll 2nd row seats. I removed the third row a week after I bought it as it just got in the way and doesn’t fold flat like the LR4. Neither does the 2nd row. Fortunately, the drawer system I had installed is at the same height as the 2nd row when the back is folded down and with a little work that has become the “sleeping platform”. Definitely not the versatility of the LR4 cargo area (everything behind the first row). But the LC has a wider interior so that helps. In fact, the LC is somewhat wider in girth but its external measurements are not really wider. That is because the LR4 has fenders, the LC does not. The LC has some nice comfort features in the interior. At least the 2nd row where the seats can move forward and back and tilt back. But I found the front seat of the LR4, especially ours which had the lumbar support, to be more comfortable than the LC.
Infotainment/Nav? I do miss the off-road mode of the LR4. Especially the ability to upload gpx files for trails. The LC is not better for highway stuff and has no off road mode. So I installed an iPad holder and use iPad based Navigation tools. Much better. When not supporting my iPad I use the floor-mounted support to hold a table I made. It serves as a platform for lunch, camera gear, etc. The one thing I do like about the LC is that it has Siri Hands Free. So I can control my iPhone even when it is stored away. And the LC has wireless charging which will be great when I get my next iPhone.
Other notable differences? My LR4 did not have adaptive cruise control (though later LR4 models had that option.). Actually very nice on road trips. The LC has auto High Beams like the LR4 but the headlights do not adjust left and right around curves. That would be nice on dark mountain roads.
If Land Rover had come out with an improved LR4 that addressed the tongue weight issue I probably would have remained with Land Rover. But they didn’t. The new “Discovery” is a travesty. And in the context of this thread, I hope Toyota doesn’t do to the LC what Land Rover did to the LR4/Discovery! People are not beginning to talk and speculate about the next generation Land Cruiser as the current one is rather long in tooth. The fear is that they will cave to the pressure to make something more “relevant” to people who never use it for adventure and the closest they come to rock crawling is accidentally driving over the curb. We’ll see. But in a few years, as the LR4s begin to die out and unless the Defender is what we hope it will be, the Land Cruiser may become the next best option - even if you have to buy a used one.
Wishing you all well. Again, some very fond memories from the experiences we had with the LR4 and many thanks to many of you on this forum who were so helpful during that time. Maybe we’ll cross paths on a trail some time! I would never hesitate to partner up with someone in an LR4! If you see a white LC on the trail (I have named it “The Yeti”) with orange Maxtrax and a shovel on the permanent roof rack, it is likely to be me. Say hello!
I often miss the new 06 LC100 I had.
