Water pump ******

djkaosone

'11 LR4 HSE LUX 5.0L V8
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Posts
772
Reaction score
485
Location
SoCal

Attachments

  • 20220428_180135.jpg
    20220428_180135.jpg
    102.8 KB · Views: 30

jlach993

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Posts
478
Reaction score
179
Location
Fresh Meadows Queens NY
lol.....we're not allowed to say "n i p p l e" now? hahahaha grow up forum bot filter!

Thanks for the share!! I may be needing to do water pump job #2....
 

avslash

Full Access Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Posts
1,180
Reaction score
1,008
Location
The Lone Star State
Thanks. Just ordered on to add at some point.

Make sure you get a brass bleeder screw to replace the plastic POS while you are at it.
 

djkaosone

'11 LR4 HSE LUX 5.0L V8
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Posts
772
Reaction score
485
Location
SoCal
Thanks. Just ordered on to add at some point.

Make sure you get a brass bleeder screw to replace the plastic POS while you are at it.
Yup, I've been using a bmw brass bleed screw for a few years now. That reminds me, I should preemptively replace the o-ring on it.
 

txfromwi

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Posts
281
Reaction score
92
Location
2013 & 2015 Houston TX. 2016 Rochester NY
I am electrochemist and I would urge caution with adding additional types of metal to the system.
When I see dissimilar metals connected via an electrically conductive fluid (coolant), I think corrosion.

If there is already brass in the system, then no problems, but adding brass and the new metals is contains might be an issue....

I agree that I do not especially like that plastic bit....
 

mm3846

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Posts
242
Reaction score
115
Location
LI, NY
I wouldn't mix brass and the OAT/HOAT coolants. One fitting is probably fine, but the new coolants can react negatively with them IIRC.
 

greiswig

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Posts
472
Reaction score
161
Location
Oregon
I am electrochemist and I would urge caution with adding additional types of metal to the system.
When I see dissimilar metals connected via an electrically conductive fluid (coolant), I think corrosion.

If there is already brass in the system, then no problems, but adding brass and the new metals is contains might be an issue....

I agree that I do not especially like that plastic bit....
Handy to have your expertise here. I'm trying to make a heat exchanger shower for overlanding, and the easiest way for me to plumb it in is to sweat some Y's using copper tubing. Do you think either the copper or the solder is going to present problems with galvanic corrosion in the OAT coolant?
 

txfromwi

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Posts
281
Reaction score
92
Location
2013 & 2015 Houston TX. 2016 Rochester NY
Let me take a look at it for a more informed answer.

Unfortunately for a comprehensive answer we would need a list of every metal (and alloy) in the entire system - and that's pretty unlikely....and there is no such thing as just "Brass" ( and even to a lesser extent the copper and solder in the fittings and tubing) - there are many alloy variants....

Then, at the first level, the coolant is just an electrically conductive electrolyte - but then there is the whole OAT thing, would need to know all the chemistry in that formulation, and I don't know much about that other than that it could be very "interesting"

Ph.D. Electrochemist - he says ... sure....
Hey, I thought this group was all about learning from others adventures - sounds like you need to do the experiment and tell us what you learn - ha, ha...

Just an idea, on the heat exchanger.? Using all Rover parts... You know, that intercooler has a pump in the circuit - how about adding a Y, a pump, a liquid to liquid heat exchanger and another Y to complete the circuit. For the Y's you could get the thermostat housings, and just take out the thermostat, and the pump is a standard part - but the liq/liq heat exchanger - hmmm... that oil cooler and that transmission cooler are both liq/liq. So,, you could build the "hot" side from all Rover parts and then the only issue is the shower water on the human side of those liq/liq heat exchangers - I would be mostly concerned about lime and scaling from the hard water... ..

I will let you know what I learn on the corrosion issue...
 
Last edited:

greiswig

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Posts
472
Reaction score
161
Location
Oregon
Just an idea, on the heat exchanger.? Using all Rover parts... You know, that intercooler has a pump in the circuit - how about adding a Y, a pump, a liquid to liquid heat exchanger and another Y to complete the circuit. For the Y's you could get the thermostat housings, and just take out the thermostat, and the pump is a standard part - but the liq/liq heat exchanger - hmmm... that oil cooler and that transmission cooler are both liq/liq. So,, you could build the "hot" side from all Rover parts and then the only issue is the shower water on the human side of those liq/liq heat exchangers - I would be mostly concerned about lime and scaling from the hard water... ..

I will let you know what I learn on the corrosion issue...
I appreciate this. And yes, this IS something I had thought about doing. In terms of space and area for a lot of flow, it looked to me like the most opportune place to tap into was the upper radiator hose. This also has the advantage that if something goes wrong with the system, I can return a stock hose there and be back on my way.

The exchanger is one I have already...I got a surplus Flatplate stainless exchanger some time ago and haven't used it. It's got around 10sq' of liquid to liquid area, so it should be more than up to the task. I'm hoping I can mount it inside my new winch bumper that I've supposedly got coming soon, and just plumb a couple of 3/4" hoses in from that radiator hose (send and return), then a couple of fittings for the other side along with a dedicated pump, switch, and a bypass to control temperature.

I do see what you mean about not knowing the different alloys in the system. I figured it might not be a bad idea to paint the inside of the copper with something to help keep direct contact with the electrolyte down.
 

txfromwi

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Posts
281
Reaction score
92
Location
2013 & 2015 Houston TX. 2016 Rochester NY
I spent a few minutes refreshing my memory...

I find commonly available, 4 grades of copper and 8 grades of brass, each of which is an alloy of two or more metals. and brass is mainly a copper/zinc alloy.
The LR4 block is Aluminum, as is the water pump.

So in the base case we are concerned about an Aluminum/Copper reaction.

I defer to anyone with a better explanation, but for now, I see 3 cases that could occur if adding copper/brass to the system.

1. It can become a battery. The metals, Aluminum/Copper or Aluminum/Brass, need to be physically separated and the electrolyte (coolant) needs to contain copper in solution as an ion.
I doubt that the OAT coolant contains copper in solution, so I have a hard time believing this scenario. (but see #3 below)

2. It can become an electrolysis (corrosion) situation. The metals, Aluminum/Copper or Aluminum/Brass, need to be physically touching each other and the electrolyte (coolant) needs to electrically conductive, which it will be. As long as the metals are not touching there is no problem - recall that little washer in your hot water heater? If it's in place, no problems, if it's left out, big time corrosion - same here. So with the little brass bit, does it physically touch the interior of the water pump - probably not?? There is no need to passivate any Copper or Brass surfaces, as there will not be a reaction unless the Al/Cu or Al/Brass are physically touching. (If there was corrosion, the Aluminum would dissolve, but it's related to the relative surface areas of each metal - lots of aluminum, relatively little copper - so would likely never notice it, even if it did happen.)

3. Reactions directly with the OAT coolant. I know, from an experience with one of my customers some years ago, that every manufacturer has a master list of the materials of construction in their engine that will be in contact with the coolant. And there is a master list of coolant components and additives and how they react to every material of construction. And, these are highly protected by secrecy agreements between all parties - so you and I will never know... My concern is there there might be a reaction between the coolant and the Copper or Brass, and that reaction would put copper into solution and then we might entertain case #1 above.

Same with stainless - there are many different varieties, each is a different alloy.
You could, of course, use inconel, that doesn't react with anything - but if you can afford that, why are you dinking around with a Rover - get a Grenadier and trick it out!

Personally, since I do not understand the OAT coolant chemistry, and I strictly use only Rover fluids (everywhere), I would not add any potentially new metals to the wetted surfaces list.
Might be massively overcautious, but in my case at least, I can never again afford a new Rover - and I would like to take every precaution to keep our 2013 and 2016 as long as possible...

If anyone has a definitive answer based on actual experience, I know we would all be very interested....
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
35,547
Posts
209,628
Members
29,803
Latest member
Sandy007
Top