How many pounds an hour are the fuel injectors?

[beemer]

I recall in the past readings in my factory service manual that Rover ran a rail pressure regulated between 2.4 and 2.7 bars vs the normal standard of 3 bars or 43.5 PSI, go figure, English. No wonder they use 24# injectors as this would feed a 5.8 litre Ford engine. To replace the old outdated single stream Lucas injectors with the same vs a more modern design made for a reason one would be crazy as there is a reason the 4 hole smaller stream disc injectors came about. Even the 4.0 litre BMW injectors have 4 hole disc with a rather tight stream pattern of 1 1/4" at 9 inches from the injector. Just switching from the same pounds an hour from single pentle to 4 hole on a 325is BMW made the motor come alive and this after I already first flushed, cleaned and flow balanced a bunch of older pentle style single squirt injectors. JMO here on what I have found out that not only works but made an improvement on my Rover motor.

 

[joey]

Beemer, got a link to the injectors you speak of?

 

[beemer]

Joey; this is one of the many sites i've used besides speaking to many injector cleaning services and shops. I built my own PWM, Hz controller with timer control. Not only forward abd back flushing I used the ultrasonic cleaner plus my pressure vessel to test my own injectors.
Not only the flow patterns watched I found made up a balanced batch of 8 injectors that floe within 0.4% of the set of 8. damn engine when stone cold lights off at the first cylinder over compression. Idles down to 300 rpm's dragging the clutch in 5th at idle until compression prevents follow thru ot tick over. What a difference plus 11 PPM of max allowed of 100 PPM at idle and 10 PPM of 180 PPM allowed max at the 2,500 rpm smog test. You tell me which is better as I had 19 and 16 PPM with Lucas injectors.
Joey; these are F2TE-A3A Bosch injectors with a Ford part number with 23.67 lbs/hr flow.
They feed late full size 351" Ford Broncos. Progress with injectors is why disc 4 hole units came out ve the old Lucas single squirt injectors. I use what works for me not what Stealers tell me I must use or run. Even the 330" 5.4 litre 2002 Ford SOHC injectors are and option but the tighter 4 hole pattern of the A3A injectors keep the fuel off the port walls. Tighter 4 hole pattern yet is BMW's 4.0 litre injectors, tsalking 1 3/8" wide at 10" away from the injector.
This was a fun injector building, testing, learning project besides for future injectors on my BMW's. Add to this how many hundreds of dollars i've saved on injectors. Yes you can pay to get a balanced set that flow within 10% which is the injector production average, many flushing services down to 3% balance with racing injectors at 1% to zero% balance difference. These you pay for also. I'll be a cheap bastard and settle for my 0.4% balance.
Not only this Joey that intake extension and plenum plate work great, best this 4.6 has ever run
the past 8 years. I can stop the motor hot or cold in 2nd gear, ignition on, give the Rover a shove and it will start, best to have a driver inside doing this test stunt. Pictures later I need to download.
You must remember Rover rail pressure is from 2.4 to 2.7 BARS when the standard for many injectors is 3 BARS or 43.5 PSI.
This chart below should help as Stan Weiss has not only injector flows but head flows in cfm's for all vehicle manufactures from stock to full race. Carl.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

 

[antichrist]

Interesting, that chart shows 18.25lb/hr injector for the Rover 3.9.

 

[greg409]

I bought a used set of ford 19# last week - $20

I'll rebuild them (easy) in the next week or two & post
rebuild kit 25$ or so

luck,greg

 

[beemer]

I bought a used set of ford 19# last week - $20

I'll rebuild them (easy) in the next week or two & post
rebuild kit 25$ or so

luck,greg

Those 19# injectors at 2.4 to 2.7 bars not the standard of 3 bars your close on a 3.9/4.0 engine running past the 80% duty cycle. My 4.6 with its port matching from the cold ram air to the Borla exhaust I would lean out with the injectors hitting 98 to 100% duty cycle a bad thing on any motor. This is why I dumped that pile of 19# injectors, well I traded for the special injector cleaning solution from an injector shop.
You can not "rebuild" an injector, remove the pentle cap and filter that's as far as you can "rebuild". Flushing with carb cleaner over time will also damage the injector inside as well the seal between the metal can body and the plastic top at the crimp. Injector cleaning shops use a special water base cleaning solution. I used ultrasonic injector cleaner that' available to injector shops not the public it's stronger. With the pulser at different PW plus Hz I flushed forward and backward each injector for 1/2 hour in each direction while in the ultrasonic machine. You'll be surprised with only the tip in the solution with the exteriors clean how dirty the cleaning fluid gets from the crap that's internal in the injectors. I did 4 at a time and had to change the cleaning solution after cleaning just four. I then tested the spray patterns. Next off to balance check I used gasoline vs a special liquid with the same viscosity as gasoline, solvent or paint thinner can also work but not the real deal like gasoline. Once the balance testing was done and a set made up using the electronic timer and Burette tube I ran 50/50 2 ****** oil with solvent thru them to protect the insides from moisture damage plus the injector seat.

The 19# injectors off Fords are rated at 3 bars so at Rovers 2.4 to 2.7 bars your lower yet
inounds an hour and headed for a higher duty cycle then to 100% and into a static not dynamic flow, injectors out of control then as well the flow rates and headed into a lean meltdown condition. Your motor feel lucky or have a fat wallet for a rebuild? Check the tailpipe for aluminum, sorry hard facts plus I don't tap dance with my replies. Ask Joey about me over the years. My Intake mods posted later.

This sounds like the Bosch units with Ford part numbers on them for the Ford 4.6 T Bird motor. I gave away a plastic shopping bag weighing 13 1/4 pounds of them. The 2002 Ford truck 5.4 litre Bosch # 280-150-556 is another better choice, rated at 260 HP feeding a 330" motor but the 4 hole spray pattern was wider than the F2TE-A3A injectors. Even the 97 and later Saab injectors fit the bill at 24# but have a wider pattern than the 556 this wetting the port walls both not to my liking. The BMW 4.0 injectors have a 10" away pattern of only 1 3/8" wide plus the disc is recessed app and inch into the injector, they stay clean and not varnish up. I place then as second choice over the A3A injectors but I have a 4.6 hence the A3A choice.
Just before they started shutting down Pick N Pulls in my area I went on a 3 week injection collecting spree of many different Bosch part numbers as well Ford numbers. Ford had the best Bosch injectors, tight 4 hole spray pattern plus the set I got off a low mileage Bronco that whole set of 8 came up balanced perfectly, well to within 0.4% all 8. Way better than even brand new unless you paid for racing injectors of zero to 1% maximum out of balance. I saved $380 for a balanced racing set plus my injectors were freebies as I knew the workers at Pick N Pull.
I now have three sets of Rover injectors lubed and in storage, later I may flush and balance check then sell on ebay as i'll never run that Lucas old school single squirt garbage in my Rover again. You do not know what your missing without this more modern design upgrade, I have after doing my homework. Carl.

 

[beemer]

The 540i BMW 96-2003 4.4 litre 282 HP 330 TQ stamped with D3763FA numbers on the injectors. These HP and TQ numbers are way above what a Rover can ever dream of producing unless it's a special 4.9 or 5.2 RPI engine.
Bosch 280-150-947 feeds 270 HP in M3 BMW's but a rare vehicle with a low production from 92 to 99. Ford Motorsports sells these 24 # injectors that go on 93 to 95 5.0 litre Ford as well their 7.5 litre or 460 cu/in motor from 91 to 97. The Ford part number is F1TE-D5A, same as the Bosch number 280-150-947. Injectors sold as used buyer beware as they can be dirty used, just used and flushed but define flushed and how good? Flushed but not flow balanced or a matched set of 8 sold for only $98 on fleabay you get what they ship and what you pay for might as well gamble with used at Pick N Pull yourself. Unless you have a variable PWM with variable Hz and electronic timer control plus a ultrasonic cleaner with the proper cleaning solutions plus a regulated fluid pressure chamber your just guessing the injectors flow performance. I must add the leak drip test also with all these controlled tests to repeat exactly every time for accurate results. Not a 9 volt battery with a spray can of Berryman B-12 and call it good and flushed like the injector service shops. Done ranting your call.

 

[greg409]

cool-

virtually every source I've found & by my formulae I need about 16#inj. @ 35psi fuelrail to make my 180hp @ 80% duty cycle.

I'm certain that these would be better than my 130k mi originals that click their little brains out .

sides, it's fun

I'll post

luck,greg

 

[beemer]

cool-

virtually every source I've found & by my formulae I need about 16#inj. @ 35psi fuelrail to make my 180hp @ 80% duty cycle.

I'm certain that these would be better than my 130k mi originals that click their little brains out .

sides, it's fun

I'll post

luck,greg

I would plug in a meter like a Fluke 87 and set it on duty cycle them do some high rpm heavy motor loading up a highway incline before just installing 16# and call it good. Before this I would keep an eye on the tailpipe looking for aluminum without doing a real life conditions testing first.

With the bottom of my plenum now 1.75" higher than stock I can lift the fuel rail to change injectors with ease now. Today a LR3 came beside me at the on ramp stop lights to get on the freeway he asked me "how I liked my Old Rover you should buy a newer one". Just as the light turned green he said bye bye to me and nailed it. I couldn't resist as 4 seconds later my lane turned green, I caught and passed him so damn fast he couldn't belive it. With the 5 speed vs the heavy slush box LR3. He gave up and slowed down in my rear view now as I was still pulling away at 115 with more speed to gain. Funny part I slowed to 70 and did my cruise speed while the LR3 caught up then I see the finger given to me, I replied with my 34" airhorn which shook him with his window down. I say F 'em plus I can corner faster with my sleeper, so what it's not a dirt mobile or newer, it's set up for the street duty only with the suspension setup. I'll stay with my 4.6 OB1 it's easy to work on. I now have the 4.6 MASS meter back on after the smog test last week.

 

[beemer]

Joey; I looked at Five O and other injector companies many months ago and it would of cost me over $370 for a set of 8 thru Five O, It looks like what they call brand new in the photo just flushed with repainted metal bodies in the photo of the fat body injectors. Dark gray with overspray isn't new looking Bosch quality control standards. Are they a select balanced set no as I asked them. This would of run me over $450 for a select balanced set. I'm into my electronic PWM, variable Hz control with timer kit plus the cleaning chamber I machined and built from scratch for a total of less than $100. All Injectors collected were free just my time and labor plus I have a balanced set and can do other injectors for the BMW's and other vehicles I own. I just did the injectors on the DeLorean as they varnished up on me. My fault as I only have 314 original miles on the 81 5 speed. This cleaner has paid for itself many times over already plus the pleasure of doing and knowing they are balanced to the nats ass with the Burette tube. I'm not a throw money at it person and a Rover will suck up money this way really fast. I'm a tinker person looking to improve on things.