Automotive Dark Ages and the new LR4

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kwlr3

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As I read about the new LR4 and it's lack of a dip stick and oil drain plug, I feel compelled to predict that we are about to enter the third "Dark Ages of the Automobile". By Dark Ages, I mean a period of time where the design of autos goes through profound technological change but there is NO GAIN in the enjoyment of the auto. In fact, the car and your joy of owning and maintaining will mark you as a social pariah, a misfit in society. This Dark age will last anywhere from 5 to 15 years, and half of the manufacturers in business today will not survive. The class of cars of cars that might be characterized as "enthusiast models" (sports cars and rugged SUV's???) will almost completely disappear.

The first Dark Age started in 1929. The Great Depression marked the extinction of the "berg's, the phaeton's, and the 'pre-war Benz's, Bentley's, Aston Martins', Alfa's and the demise of about 80% of all manufacturers. The second Dark Age started in 1974 with the introduction of air-pollution and safety laws. It was an era of cars designed by insurance companies (remember 5 mph bumpers), environmentalist (55 mph speed limit and 85 mph speedos), and the DOT ( auto-engaging seat belts). European makes were the first to exit the last dark age partly because of their Bosch fuel injection systems and emphasis on "safety built in".

Common to all Dark Ages is an economic collapse and mis-guided government regulation. Here is my short list of sign posts to the next auto apocalypse:
1. Long Live the Hummer. No to my taste but you got to love a country and a company that could build a brand around basically two vehicles.
2. Start Stop engines. After you're rear-ended once you'll know why.
3. Green Design Initiatives. That just means that you nor any else will ever change the oil.
4. Hi Tech Batteries. They cost about half the price of the vehicle have a service life measured in months and hundreds of cycle. Just wait to till one spontaneously combusts. Dust off the old Pinto lawsuit papers.

I'm not saying that auto's are doomed, just that we are about to go through a long rough patch where there will be a shortage of exciting and reliable models. Can we have cars that are environmentally (more) responsible, substantially more efficient, and still be fun? I predict (hope?) there will be an LR6 maybe LR7 with a small diesel engine, electric motors for each wheel and no more than 100 lbs of batteries. The electric motors will handle most of the braking needs, all of the traction control, and boost acceleration. And, IT WILL BE A GREAT OFF-ROADER with all of it's torque available instantly, able to operate by battery with water over the hood (works for submarines), get 40 mpg and last for 250,000 miles. Unfortunately, we'll have to drive a lot of crap cars before that dream is built. Unless....

If your old enough to wish you (or your dad) had bought (or kept) that Hemi Cuda, SS396, Boss Mustang, or CJ5 with the 304 V8 (there weren't very many Series II's in the States back then) this is your chance to do it in this generation. So, regardless of the problems you might be having with your LR3, maintain it 'cause they ain't make'in them like they used to.
 

Boaz

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Pretty deep for post 56... :cool:

I will say that I feel much safer even on-road than I would in one of those little hybrid things. Not sure I'd even feel it if one got stuck under a slider after hitting me from the side. :smile:

But if they could keep the LR5/6/7 at 6,000 lbs and give me 50 MPG and a 1,000 mile range, without a loss in on or off road performance, I wouldn't care what kind of engine was in there.
:driver:
 

beantmt

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That is deep. I'm just wondering what the next iteration of the L2 will be called.
 

thorgal

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Kwlr3,remind me,what do you smoke< I want some of that...that ...medicine.:hello:But seriously,for years now,manufacturers are trying to take away fun from driving,let us falsely relay on complicated electronics,leaving an actual driver to feel like a passenger.Sure it will be nice to jump into your future car being drunk and all and simply say "take my home" without usual consequences,but where is the fun?.Good thing is I don't drink and drive.:proud:
 

NickLR3HSE

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you must understand this was Ford's doing. They did the same thing on the Ford Expedition and other SUVs they produce, and maybe even the newer F150s. I guess when you cut out a dipstick and equate the savings per vehicle produced all the pennies add up. just another reason to not buy a ford. We will have to see what TATA continues to do the the Land Rover. We love our 06 LR3 can't imagine they could make it much better while still keeping the off road capability there.

As I read about the new LR4 and it's lack of a dip stick and oil drain plug, I feel compelled to predict that we are about to enter the third "Dark Ages of the Automobile". By Dark Ages, I mean a period of time where the design of autos goes through profound technological change but there is NO GAIN in the enjoyment of the auto. In fact, the car and your joy of owning and maintaining will mark you as a social pariah, a misfit in society. This Dark age will last anywhere from 5 to 15 years, and half of the manufacturers in business today will not survive. The class of cars of cars that might be characterized as "enthusiast models" (sports cars and rugged SUV's???) will almost completely disappear.

The first Dark Age started in 1929. The Great Depression marked the extinction of the "berg's, the phaeton's, and the 'pre-war Benz's, Bentley's, Aston Martins', Alfa's and the demise of about 80% of all manufacturers. The second Dark Age started in 1974 with the introduction of air-pollution and safety laws. It was an era of cars designed by insurance companies (remember 5 mph bumpers), environmentalist (55 mph speed limit and 85 mph speedos), and the DOT ( auto-engaging seat belts). European makes were the first to exit the last dark age partly because of their Bosch fuel injection systems and emphasis on "safety built in".

Common to all Dark Ages is an economic collapse and mis-guided government regulation. Here is my short list of sign posts to the next auto apocalypse:
1. Long Live the Hummer. No to my taste but you got to love a country and a company that could build a brand around basically two vehicles.
2. Start Stop engines. After you're rear-ended once you'll know why.
3. Green Design Initiatives. That just means that you nor any else will ever change the oil.
4. Hi Tech Batteries. They cost about half the price of the vehicle have a service life measured in months and hundreds of cycle. Just wait to till one spontaneously combusts. Dust off the old Pinto lawsuit papers.

I'm not saying that auto's are doomed, just that we are about to go through a long rough patch where there will be a shortage of exciting and reliable models. Can we have cars that are environmentally (more) responsible, substantially more efficient, and still be fun? I predict (hope?) there will be an LR6 maybe LR7 with a small diesel engine, electric motors for each wheel and no more than 100 lbs of batteries. The electric motors will handle most of the braking needs, all of the traction control, and boost acceleration. And, IT WILL BE A GREAT OFF-ROADER with all of it's torque available instantly, able to operate by battery with water over the hood (works for submarines), get 40 mpg and last for 250,000 miles. Unfortunately, we'll have to drive a lot of crap cars before that dream is built. Unless....

If your old enough to wish you (or your dad) had bought (or kept) that Hemi Cuda, SS396, Boss Mustang, or CJ5 with the 304 V8 (there weren't very many Series II's in the States back then) this is your chance to do it in this generation. So, regardless of the problems you might be having with your LR3, maintain it 'cause they ain't make'in them like they used to.
 

JackMac

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Last I checked, you can still plunk down your hard earned cash on a new Camaro SS, a Shelby Mustang GT500, or a Dodge Challenger R/T with a HEMI motor.

However, change is inevitable. That is why we have technology like ABS, Sat Navigation, Dynamic Stability Control, multi-stage airbags, Bluetooth, variable valve timing, direct fuel injection, etc. New technology inevitably makes its way into automotive products.

Some of these changes can be useful, while others (like adaptive cruise control and automatic highbeam assist) I can live without.

Hopefully market place demand will continue to ensure a variety of offerings, and we will still have vehicles that an enthusiast can enjoy. Even if it may be powered by a flux capacitor.
 

kwlr3

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Truth is I had already drunk half a bottle of red but no smoke.

I agree that today you can buy a new Camero, Mustang, or Cuda and they are vastly superior cars than the originals. But my point is it took over THIRTY YERAS before the better product arrived. In the meantime, we had the Pinto based Mustang II, the screaming chicken Firebird and nothing from Mopar. My advice to you is if you like those cars (i do) buy one before they are gone. I tried to buy a Solstice GXP Coupe/manual box, none to be found. Will the Camero be around long enough for GM to produce a Z-28 convertible? Will the government allow them to build such a low volume model? GM is already dumping Cameros into rental fleets. That's not a good sign.

Land Rover is not the only make doing away with the dipstick. BMW's don't have them either. Hell, BMW's don't have radio buttons. Look at the changes in the 4x4 gear box. It used to be three levers to operate, then two (Disco I) then one lever and a tiny toggle switch. The LR4 replaced that with buttons. Did any of those changes make driving a 4x4 more fun? How long will it be before the low range switch is interfaced with the GPS? 4 Low will engage automatically and only if you are on approved "off-road terrain".

It's my opinion that over the last five years we have been presented with the finest selection of auto choices and technology ever, as for the next five to ten years, not so good.
 

jpljpl

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It's my opinion that over the last five years we have been presented with the finest selection of auto choices and technology ever, as for the next five to ten years, not so good.

Just the other day I was telling some of my buddies that I thought this was going to be the 'golden age' of cars as we know it.

Before CAFE standards really kick in, and gas prices are still reasonable.

This is better discussed over a couple of pints, but I agree kwl... I think we look back at this and say wow, what happened.

The fact you can buy a Z06 that will lap the ring in the mid 7's, or a Rubicon from the factory with selectable f/r lockers, 4-1, 44's and a warranty. Or a firebreathing WRX STI or Evo for ~35k, and run with just about any car on the road.

Lots of fun choices out there now.
 

nwoods

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The fact you can buy a Z06 that will lap the ring in the mid 7's.

Did you see what the CTS-V did recently? 7:59, driven in auto. Wow!
Wow!

KWlr3. Great post. I feel your pain, and to be honest, I think you are right, but not totally. I think there will always be some options. Don't forget, you can still buy motorcycles like these:

Royal Enfield: http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/models/classic-c5.html

c5-right-red.jpg



And the Indian Chief: http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/

classicwebfeaturefin.jpg
 

jpljpl

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Did you see what the CTS-V did recently? 7:59, driven in auto. Wow!
QUOTE]


Thats awesome. 560hp is still a lot stink!! Probably could do it with the AC on and another passenger.

The fact that there is even a market for cars like this is great.
 

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