Looking for 75k service advice

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Houm_WA

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Changed front diff fluid to Royal Purple as described in this thread; no quieting effect yet. I've driven about 15-20 miles since the change....should I expect it to quiet down over time or is it just not gonna happen? EIGHTLUG, what was your experience?
 

EIGHTLUG

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My diffs only whined on the interstate at around 70+, before the fluid change. After dropping the fluid and going to RP, the whine at highway speeds was all but eliminated. I also noticed that it would coast better. Just all around smoother.

When I dropped the fluid, I caught it in a clear plastic pan. Old fluid was BLACK, freaking Texas Tea.... I searched for metal shavings and anything that would look out of the ordinary. Diffs were clean and F/R lash were ok.

At what speeds are you hearing the whine Houm? Like I said, I'd only hear it on the interstate, under acceleration. If you're hearing it at lower speeds or all the time, you may have to dig deeper. Also, how did your old fluid look?
 

Houm_WA

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Mine behaves exactly as you describe...a high(er) pitched hum or roar above 65 mph and only under acceleration. My fluid looked fine when it was changed the first time just a few months ago. Metal shavings around the magnetic drain plug were "normal" according to the tech.
 

tlt

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Transfer Case: Royal Purple Synchromax (part #01512, quart bottle) or Royal Purple Max ATF (part #01320, quart bottle); 1.6 quarts

Differentials: Royal Purple Max Gear 75W-90 (part #01300, quart bottle); 0.65 quart for the front and 1.6 quarts for the rear (locker version) 1.2 quarts (non locker)

If you decide you want to have your Diff Rebuilt PM me.
 

EIGHTLUG

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A rebuild or at the minimum R2 of the Ring and pinion may be necessary, in your case Houm. If I were to get a new diff, I'd definitely run RP from day one. I know what I'm doing now is just a band-aid and eventually a rebuild will be on the horizon. I'm at 94k miles now.

Something that I don't think has been discussed is the heat issues in these diffs. I noticed on several occasions, on long trips that the whine would go away. Say I set the cruise at 80 to 85 and run that for 20 miles or so. Once I'd hit traffic and slow back down to 70-75 the diffs would be quiet. As if there wasn't anything wrong with them. No whine, at what would be the "normal" speed where I'd hear it.

The only thing I can figure is the added heat from running the gears faster is expanding the Ring & Pinion a couple thousandths and the gears are meshing better. As said in the previous post, these diffs aren't filled with much fluid. Basically a quart and a half in the rear and just a smidge over a pint up front.
 

tlt

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With respect the variable whine times/circumstances. That's another reason why the RP should help reduce wear, noise and consistency. Running it according to RP reduces operating temperatures as much as 15 degrees, as shown on the thermo gun on the test video. That has to be a good thing, other LR3/DIII owners have reported the RP quiets it down. If it is shot, it is shot, but due to the cost, I would be inclined to stretch it out for as long as possible. Now to be skeptical, the video below implies savings by switching to synthetic, not from some other synthetic to RP. Needless to say, I think it is worth trying out.

YouTube - Trucks TV! Reduces Engine Heat by Changing to Synthetic

I will let you know how mine comes out. The rear locker and vehicle is on the rack now being rebuilt, including ring & pinion. The parts are supposed to be better than original, and designed specifically to eliminate the whine issues, etc. (locker)

The front Ring & Pinion is not yet available, until the demand is large enough. The bearings and seals are available.

The parts are not available from LR but I can get them.
 
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Houm_WA

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Well I'm under a form of warranty through GEICO for another 14 months. Let's hope it goes out within that timeframe.

I don't care about the whine, but I'm just feeling like it's a sign that it's going to eventually fail and I can't stop it at this point.
 

goinsurfin

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So this whining sound that everyone is talking about- is this also the same sound I hear when at a stop i slowly press the accelerator and let go- I here what sounds like a gear not grinding, but rotating freely in the transmission? I can feel the vibration a bit too. I cannot say I've heard whining at high speeds but will pay attention next time to see if it happens or not.

Also, I spoke with a indy shop yesterday- only does Jags and LRs- mostly discos and RR classics- he only uses European synthetic oil such as Total and stays away from Castrol and other American brands- something about the overall- viscosity. The European synthetic oils are a better quality of oil compared to American synthetic brands.

He said that even though LR recommends Castrol- its Castrol oil based in the US, not Europe- they are not of the same quality. As I read about the results some of you have with the Royal Purple oil, I'm curious to know if there are any long term concerns if at all...

Note, I'm not a well-versed with different types of oil and to date, the dealer has used Castro oil... I'm open to suggestions on true quality oil suggestions.
 

tlt

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Well, I cannot speak to the theory of European vs American Lubricants. I can speak with some authority as to the exact reason for the failures, and then the remedy.

I had my LR3 serviced at the stealer from day one, exactly by the book to manufacturer specs. I had my Differential fluid changed at 75k, at that time, they advised me I needed a new differential rebuilt and quoted some price of 4-5k with labor.

I didn't have it replaced at that time, instead I started investigating if I could get the parts, etc. and what or who else might be able to do it. During this investigation I discovered that the parts were not available at the dealer, or anywhere else. I revisited the dealer on the subject, and discovered they were swapping the unit, not repairing it. No mention, just the usual dumb look, when I asked if there was a core swap, surcharge, etc. I then specifically asked if they could get the bearings and parts, and they claimed it couldn't be done. I asked them to give me the numbers on the bearings they claimed they had, and couldn't cross reference, no reply.

After lengthy investigation I found the bearings, and Ring & Pinion. After getting the parts in, and the additional bits needed, I located an Indy shop with good experience rebuilding differentials. So finally, I got it on the rack, and they pulled off the differential, and drained the fluid, etc. At 90k, just 15k after the fluid change, the fluid was milky and contaminated with water. Now, considering we live and a dry climate, and I have not forded any water (one time since I owned the vehicle) I don't understand how/why the diff oil is contaminated in such a short time. The conclusions that I can come to are that, either there is a design defect causing moisture to accumulate rapidly and not escape, or that the dealer did not actually change the fluids, as they claimed and charged me for. Now, you could argue that the damage was done from 0-75k miles, but that does not explain the water from 75-90k.

Now the lessons that can be taken from this based on talking with the Indy shop, is that water, and the resulting rust did the damage. So, I would have to say, it might be well advised to change your Differential Fluid every other oil change, or say every 14-20k miles. I don't currently have a warranty, but even if you do have a warranty, who wants to deal with getting repairs done, not having your vehicle, and all the other associated hassles. LR should change this fluid under warranty at least every other oil change, but if they will not, I would suggest you do it yourself, or pay the extra money to have it done.

Finally, the proof, I have several detailed photos, the only ones I know of, of the diff torn apart, and showing the rust and damage. The photo attached is the locking mechanism side of the assemble internals. The Indy shop, said in general it is a very slick designed differential, and well made, aside from the water. So, the only preventative before damage, is to change your Diff Oil's at least every other oil change in my opinion. After the damage, the only solution is to rebuild it, and then change every other oil change again. It could be said, that by doing every other, and monitoring the quality of fluids when drained, it might be possible to increase the frequency. And any time you operate in water, and extreme wet conditions, it might be well advised to drain and refill them.

If you want high quality images PM me with e-mail address and I will send them.
 

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Houm_WA

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I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like, but this doesn't look that bad to me. I gather it should have no rust at all, huh? ...but should this amount of rust cause it to fail? Did your diff actually fail (as in, fail to engage) or did your dealer just tell you that it needs to be replaced?

You've stated clearly that you think everyone should change their fluid every 15k but maybe the failure mode in your case is different for other people. I changed my front diff fluid at about 80k and had the dealer pour it into a coffee cup for me. It looked great. My diff is still whining though....

I guess I'm implying that there may be multiple failure modes at work here.
 

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