What's the worst that can happen?

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Houm_WA

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How far out, Joe? We hit central WA all the time. Well, to me "central WA" means trails outside of Cle Elum and around there. Liberty, Manastash, Naches, etc.

Is there any spots farther East that you can recommend? Anything within, say, 50 miles of Chelan?
 

joecool509

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We are in the tricities. 60 miles east of Yakima. We have mostly hill climbs an sand dunes. There is an orv park in town.
 

blackforestham

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and I am not a proponent of the Rod Mod.


Ok, I gave this statement a little time to gain some perspective on. I'll apologize up front Nathan because anything I type here will come off as pissy due to the fact of who I am and what I sell - :ahhhhh:

What is your REAL issue here? Oversized tires? The air suspension system, in general? The rods are a means to an end - larger, more aggressive tires and increased ground clearance.

FAQ's

1. What about CV joint failure due to the increased operating angles?

I have not heard of ONE failure directly attributed to a rod mod.

2. What about loss of "up travel" or articulation when using the rod mod?

Personally, I use NORMAL MODE 90% of the time when off road. This is the exact same height and suspension setting as anyone else who uses OFFROAD MODE in a stock configuration. I now have EXTENDED height on demand when I need it if I choose the OFFROAD MODE setting.

3. Will my compressor be forced to work any harder than normal when using a rod mod?

No.

4. Can I install 32" tires with or without a rod mod?

Yes, but you will rub in certain situations.

5. Does the rod mod have any bearing on complete suspension failures?

No. ALL reported suspension failures have been due to software issues, sensor failures, compressor failures or corroded wiring harnesses.

I do agree that there are strong Pro's and Con's of riding on an air suspended vehicle - different thread. Your LR3 was equipped with coils from the factory. We all know that. I'm just curious why you felt motivated to opine on this subject, as your firsthand experience does not rely on living with the air suspension on a day to day basis?

Slamming to the bumpstops with 32" tires is not fun. I can personally attest to this. Please, please, please... do not consider my post to be hostile or infomercial based. In the past, you have certainly been integral to the LR community and many have relied on your experiences for real world perspective on multiple fronts. I just don't understand your statement Nathan. Again, I apologize for putting you on the spot. Many people put a high value on your statements. With fame comes responsibility. I'm just trying to see which well of experience you're drawing from to make this statement.
 

MilehighLR3

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Please, please, please... do not consider my post to be hostile . . ..

Blackforestham . . . . this is the kind of information that helps guys like me make my decisions. I'm an enthusiast, I wheel, and I have zero intentions on keeping my LR stock. I am however still learning about the quirks of this fine vehicle. My Jeep is easy, I can see everything that I can break.

That's why I worded my post the way I did, "what's the worst that can happen". I appreciate the candid post.
 

Gomie

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I see everyone wondering about tires fitting but wanting a good off road tire. I got the Nittos from discounttires.com in a 255/60/18, I never have to worry about the tires rubbing no matter what happens because I'm keeping the same size.
 

nwoods

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I see everyone wondering about tires fitting but wanting a good off road tire. I got the Nittos from discounttires.com in a 255/60/18, I never have to worry about the tires rubbing no matter what happens because I'm keeping the same size.

True, you just have to worry about flats and sidewall damage due to the fact your sidewall is too short/shallow to allow sufficient flex around objects such as sharp rocks. Around here in SoCal, low profile tires are nor effective off road due to our geology. But on the flip size, you can probably run snow chains!
 

nwoods

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I'll apologize up front Nathan because anything I type here will come off as pissy due to the fact of who I am and what I sell - :ahhhhh:

What is your REAL issue here? Oversized tires? The air suspension system, in general? The rods are a means to an end - larger, more aggressive tires and increased ground clearance. .....
I just don't understand your statement Nathan. Again, I apologize for putting you on the spot. Many people put a high value on your statements. With fame comes responsibility. I'm just trying to see which well of experience you're drawing from to make this statement.

Fame? Hmmm... how about notoriety, as I suspect that is closer to the mark :)

As for your own credibility, I have nothing but the highest respect for your actions and demeanor on all the forums with which we frequent, as well as numerous second hand campfire sessions and so forth. You've got solid friendship on my end.

On with my response:
I now know of half a dozen or so CV failures in LR3's. They are always in the front end, and on all the accounts I have seen, it occurs at full steering input, when the suspension is flexed out at full droop (usually with wheel in the air, or just lightly touching terra firma). ALL of the failures have been in standard off road, extended, or super extended mode. NONE of the failed rigs were running Rod Mod's...but that's my primary concern. If you can max out the CV angles without the rod mod, I think a rig with the mod is more susceptible to CV failure. That is my primary concern.

My secondary concern is that the principle reason for the rod mod is either:
1. Higher clearance at speeds above 30mph, or
2. Fitment of larger tires

Both of these factors exponentially increase the force applied to the drivetrain/suspension. I don't think the risk vs reward pencils out, but then, I was always just barely able to afford LR3 ownership. If I had any kind of cash reserve, perhaps I would not be quite so concerned about replacing something that is likely to be pricey.

The third reason is that I think the optimal operating parameters of the LR3 can be effectively accomplished without the lift. Underbody protection is essential, as these really are low hanging beasts, but raising them so radically changes their operating parameters such that you are likely to exceed what can safely be accomplished in them, finding yourself affected by Concern #2 above.

Scott ran the Rubicon with 32" tires and no rod mod. He had relatively fresh bushings, and STILL started rubbing on his airbag housings. How much more exacerbated would this have been with a Rod Mod changing the suspension geometry just that much more? And I will point out, the Rod Mod was not essential to accomplishing the Rubicon, or at least the 75% of it that his time schedule allowed.

In the hundreds of LR3's I have driven, spotted, trained, or run with over the years, in a wide variety of terrain, I have never found it necessary to exceed the stock air system's performance. It pushes things just that much farther towards the failure point on a vehicle that starts out more capable than it is durable.

I have never preached against it, never expounded on it, never overtly published my thoughts on it until now. But at the same time, I have never included info on the Rod Mod on my website. Now you know why. That's my honest thinking on the subject.
 
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duckdive

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Good analysis Nathan, I see both sides. Knowing that Scott runs the 31.7" BFG's I'm wondering if he used his Faultmate to change his height parameters while on his Rubicon adventure. Technically no rod mod used, but a lift none the less. Maybe he will chime in and give us his opinion on the "software lift" while on the trail.
 
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Trynian

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Yes, I used a 1.5 inch lift on the Rubicon via programing. I do not prefer the rod mod either because it is not flexible enough for me to make an adjument if needed, which I had to do while on the trail because my worn bushings were allowing the control arm to strike the air shock.

From my experiance the LR3 really does not like in what would essentially be extended mode or greater all the time. So far I have found no upside to running larger tires than I am using and only downside if you have a fault. At least with the faultmate I can diagnose and correct the problem if needed.

If running the rod mod and oversize tires, you get a bump stop fault, you are SOL.

To much downside for me just to get 1/2" of clearance on larger tires.

If I were to even consider the rod mod I would only be interested in adjustable ones for temp offroad situations on the same size tire I use now.

I will also add that your compressor does run more when lifted either way. Higher pressure kept in the springs means it will run longer to keep that higher pressure and more often.
 
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duckdive

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Good info guys, here is my perspective. I have been running the rod mod full time for almost 2 yrs now and I have not had any problems. However, I only cut 9mm off of my rods which brought me 1/2- 3/4" higher than stock at each setting. Not enough to change CV angles too drastically, but enough to run a more aggressive tire. I probably would not run it if someone made a good mud tire in stock or slightly larger sizes. The rods I have right now are my 2nd set. My first set I shortened by 12mm. Here are the problems I had. The truck rode too high, too much lean on off/on ramps and corners. It just didn't ride good. CV angles were too extreme for daily use. Also the rear tires were toeing inward (even with alignment), so tire wear was bad. Only ran these for about 2 months before I had to change. My opinion is if you are going to shorten your rods, only shorten a little. Having your suspension set just shy of extended mode for daily use on the street makes the truck drive
like **** and as stated above increases your chance of CV failure. $.02
 
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