Snow driving tip

[roverman]

I'd just buy some snow tires rather than ruining your ATs.

 

[richpike]

I'd just buy some snow tires rather than ruining your ATs.

$40 for siping versus $800 for snow tires?

In general, the AT2s are actually pretty good in the snow and ice - this is really more of an experiment, largely driven by the snow tires I just bought for the 330i. They have tons of sipes from the factory, so I figured if it was good for them, must be good for the AT2s too (although I agree with mustbeaudi that the tire compound is also critical). And although we really like the AT2s, I wouldn't be upset if they wore a little faster - we've got almost 20k miles on them now and almost no wear. How am I ever going to convince my wife that we need 285/60R18 LTZs if the AT2s never wear down????

-Rich

 

[roverman]

I'm not disputing that $40 is less than $800, I'm pretty sure it is. I'm saying siping will wear out your tires faster. Especially because you live in the Rockies, off roading will cause your tires to degrade much faster with siping. I'm in agreement with mustbeaudi, if there was no downside to doing it, they'd come that way from the factory. I'd trust millions of dollars in R&D before I trusted a tire shop with a siping tool. But that will get you to your LTZ's faster so it's all good. Sure snow tires are a big upfront cost, but you get 30000+ miles on them and 50000 miles on your Grabbers, the per mile cost is only nominally more, and the performance is much much better. Not trying to change your mind, just expanding on what I meant by "ruining your tires".

 

[mustbeaudi]

So many folks miss the point "roverman" made - you get extra life from both sets of tires when you buy the winter tires for a vehicle to be driven over many years. Folks get stuck on that up front cost.

BTW, sipes from Discount Tire are not engineered sipes like those on winter tires -- take a close look at the photos in a TireRack print ad and notice the careful designs and variations. DT just cuts uniform thin lines in all tires. Hmmm.

Good luck on the road to those LTZs! Maybe your wife won't put 2 and 2 together if the siping indeed shortens the AT lifespan.

 

[Houm_WA]

I agree...meaning I'm "anti-siping." It just seems like it would deteriorate the structural integrity of the tread.

 

[richpike]

Wow - who knew I would create such a response!

As I mentioned before, it is really a test - I highly doubt it will *hurt* ice/snow driving, and there are mixed reviews online about whether it hurts tire longevity (some people actually say it increases longevity since it reduces heat - not sure I buy that). Some people also claim it adds road noise, and makes the tire feel "squirmy". In normal driving, we have yet to notice any difference. It seems like most people agree that it makes an AT tire more susceptible to "chunking" when off road (basically breaking off a tire lug on a rock). That is most common if you do it on the outside lugs - Discount Tire only siped in the middle portion of the tire.

We are supposed to finally get some snow on Thanksgiving, so I'll give it a shot and see if I notice any changes (positive or negative).

-Rich

 

[richpike]

OK, so we've had two really good chances to test out the siping since having it done a week ago - up in Breckenridge this past weekend, and today.

First, the AT2s are very good in snow to begin with. Having said that, I do feel like there was a marginal improvement in their snow/ice performance. We drove through some hairy situations coming home from Breck on Sunday, and they performed flawlessly. Now, the "marginal" improvement could all be psychological, but I don't regret doing it.

So there is my unscientific feedback - they weren't an order of magnitude better, but they did seem to "bite" a little more than before. Would I do it again? I'm not sure - I think it depends a lot on how good the tires are in the snow to begin with - if they are as good as the AT2s, I probably wouldn't do it. If they aren't that great in the snow, I might consider it.

I'll let everyone know how they wear (assuming we keep this LR3 - our warranty is coming up and I'm debating between buying a newer one, or buying an extended warranty - decisions, decisions!).

-Rich

 

[toddjb122]

Thanks, Rich. Any pictures of the tires? (post-siping)

 

[richpike]

Thanks, Rich. Any pictures of the tires? (post-siping)

Hey toddjb122 - sorry it took me a few days to follow up. Here is a quick picture of the siping - it has actually opened up quite a bit from when we had it done (which I heard it would do). When it was first done, you couldn't even really see it - now it is pretty apparent. Notice it is just a "straight" cut, and only on the inside part of the tire (not on the outside lugs). I could definitely see how it would possibly increase "chunking" if you were doing a lot of rock crawling off road, but I would also think it would help in mud.

We are still pretty happy - went up and cut down a Christmas tree today, and had no problems on the ice/slush.

-Rich

 

[toddjb122]

Thanks Rich (I had to remember to re-read this from home because photobucket is blocked from work). Anyway, that isn't at all what I expected siping to be. So, a picture is worth a 1000 words for sure.