LR5 Release Updates?

[danrhiggins]

So I have stayed away for a few months as it felt a bit inappropriate to comment having moved to a different vehicle. But having sat in the D5 and given it a good look over I am as disappointed as I thought I would be. Opinions will differ of course. Some may be looking for a "British crossover". Or maybe they want to believe it is a less expensive RR. But as I consider many of you on this forum for whom the LR3/4 is truly and "adventure vehicle" I would hold on to your LR3/4 as long as possible. And if you have a 2013 or earlier all the better. The best word I can think of to describe the D5 is a "toy". A toy with a handful of new "cutsy" tech that may be "interesting" but not what would make me buy one and certainly not what I would want in an adventure vehicle. Sure, there may be marketing videos and such that will show professional drivers taking it on a carefully selected offroad track. But I would not want to take it overlanding or through areas like southern Utah or wherever. It just doesn't feel right. It feels out of place in those settings. To me anyway.

Many of you have already expressed the same reaction as I had so no need to continue to pile on.

Keep your LR3/4s and take care of them. There is no other vehicle quite like them and when they are gone none to replace them.

Hope y'all are doing well!

 

[catman]

I keep telling my wife we need to get over to the dealer to take a look at the D5, but she seems disinterested (and she loves everything LR). She actually seems more fixated on restoring a DII as that is her favorite body style.

Anyway, a new Land Cruiser drove in front of us the other day and she commented "is that what the newer Land Cruisers are these days? Hmmm, not bad, we might have to take a look". So clearly she is giving up on LR based on the current models coming out.

I think we are all hoping the upcoming Defender fills the void. It is clear that LR intended the Discovery to fit a new, more expansive audience, which will alienate a lot of the LR4 fans. The question is, can they deliver on the Defender lineup to make their vision come full circle and have the broad family of vehicles that has something for everyone?

Since you are here Dan, how are you lking the Land Cruiser? I know its not an LR4 exactly, but on its own merits, would you buy it again if you had to buy something new in today's marketplace? It's been years since I looked at one. I would have to remove the third row seats (we have dogs), but outside of that it seems a little better than in recent years since it received its most recent facelift.

 

[danrhiggins]

Hey, @catman, thanks for asking. I have had a few forum members ask about my thoughts on the LC vs the LR4. I have refrained from posting something as this still a Land Rover forum. I also wanted to make sure I had enough time with the LC. My thoughts on this are many. So this weekend I will write them up and place them in a separate post. But in a nutshell, I would say this. If the LR4 has the capabilities you need and is still in good shape I see no reason to move. You will likely miss a few things about the LR4 - I do/did. On the other hand, there are things that I like and I feel more comfortable towing with it - which was the catalyst for the change. The real question comes when you can no longer find an LR4 in decent condition and if the Defender does not adequately fill that gap (or is insanely expensive.) I believe the only option on the market today that comes close to the LR4 is the Land Cruiser (or if you need adjustable height suspension then its cousin the LX570). There is speculation on the LC forum about the next model Land Cruiser (which would not happen earlier than 2019 as the 2018 is purportedly going to match the 2016 and 2017) that Toyota may feel compelled to follow the broader market as Land Rover has. But, Toyota has an array of options in the market whereas LR may have felt that they didn't. Highlander, Sequoia and on the LX side the GX series. And given the average 300 mile lifespan of a Land Cruiser you should be able to get one a few years from now with upwards of 200K good miles left on it.

Anyway, I'll see if I can post something this weekend. If you want to peruse a very good Land Cruiser forum - like this one - go to IH8MUD. You will find, though, that either Land Cruisers are more conducive to aftermarket modifications or maybe LC owners tend to be more predisposed to doing that. Not that owners on this forum are shy about it. But there is even more of that going on in the LC space. Primarily for going offroad. And the most significant difference being suspension upgrades. Lots of tire, slider, roof rack and bumper upgrades as you would find with many of the LR4 owners here. But because the LC does not have adjustable suspension, it is a bit easier to do a lift on it and possibly change out the springs, etc. I'll likely be doing a 2-2.5" lift and spring upgrade when my OEM shocks where out.

And, yes, I removed the 3rd row. Very easy on the LC. Took me about 30 minutes. Replaced one side with an ARB drawer system which I can sleep on when used in combination with the 2nd row seat on the same side folded over. But I'll cover that when I do the write up this weekend.

 

[navigare]

I’m a relative greenhorn and from Europe, so models might differ slightly but one thing that drove me to buy a new LR4 three years ago over an LC was that the rear row of seats on what they call here the 4th generation doesn’t (or at least, didn’t in 2015) fold to a fully flat position, so sleeping in the car or carrying furniture was out of the question. LR was also stronger on looks and gadgetry. At the time, I wasn’t able to form an opinion on which car prevails offroad. In fact, I am still not sure, althought I love my LR4.

 

[danrhiggins]

You are spot on with the fact that the 3rd row, and arguably everything behind the front row, is a more functional design than the LC. That was the feature (or set of features) I miss most. Camping out of the back of the LR4 was awesome! I have a workaround on my LC (which required removing the 3rd row altogether and installing a drawer system) but what we had in the LR4 was clearly superior. It is doubtful this will ever change. The LC as a solid axle rear end. It is also built so that you can mount an extended fuel tank underneath which is sometimes done in Australia. So there simply is no room for the "foot well" that the LR4 has. The 3rd row seats literally sit on the floor of the LC. I don't need the 3rd row so I removed it.

As for offroad, I much preferred the LR4 due to the tighter turning radius, the automatic (and temporary) lift from the air suspension in off road mode and the overall feel. But part of that latter statement could be that it was the LR4 that got me into going offroad in the first place! Some very special memories among the 55K miles I put on our LR4 in two years. That said, the LC is definitely designed to be a robust off roader and overlander. It does have features I like for this. And it is very reliable.

But here I go, getting off topic. So let me say that ultimately the comparison LR4 owners may want to think about is the D5 vs the LC. If you are happy with the LR4 I see no reason to consider an LC. And if you want a more city-refined, techy, broader-market vehilce unproven reliability then the D5 may be the right choice. If style is less important and you want a robust, proven overlander/road tripper with a proper roof rack, sliders and possibly even a roof top tent with tires that are 285/60 stock (I have 285/65 R18 KO2s on my with no rubbing and ride awesome) and a 5.7L V8 (I now understand what your pre-2014 LR4 owners were talking about) with an 8-speed tranny (the range was extended downward) and 4L standard and full size spare standard and so on then you may prefer the LC over the D5 once you have milked the LR4 for all it is worth.

 

[navigare]

Oh, I’m not giving up my LR4 ever, and certainly not for a D5! To begin with, the D5 has inferior approach and breakover angles, as well as a lower clearance (by an inch). Also, for now at least, I’m not sure you could get a snorkel for it, or a ladder, or even underbody plates...

As to comparisons with the LC, my LR4 has a rooftop tent allright and a full-size spare, as well as being 8-speed… The only thing I envy you above is the size of the wheel well - LR4 apparently won’t take more than 31.5” total diameter without mods...

 

[navigare]

Or even 31”? I am not sure… If anyone knows, please let me know. I suppose the width matters?

 

[jwest]

Or even 31”? I am not sure… If anyone knows, please let me know. I suppose the width matters?

yes, the width matters just as much actually due to where the rub points occur. These issues are NOT eliminated by the rods that some sellers claim (unethical tactic IMO)

This is why a 265/65-18 fits kinda better than 285/60-18 or similarly why on the modified vehicles a 285/65-18 is still very problematic even though it's 32.5" diameter is about the same as a 265/70-18

 

[jwest]

I even have a 285/70-18 on mine now but because i'm not using spacers, it tucks inside the rub range - even though just barely

For looks though, 285/60-18 is so cool, even more if using a 25mm spacer. I admit it is so hard sometimes to leave things how they function best vs being swayed by how cool it looks

 

[jwest]

Hey, @catman, thanks for asking. I have had a few forum members ask about my thoughts on the LC vs the LR4. I have refrained from posting something as this still a Land Rover forum. I also wanted to make sure I had enough time with the LC. My thoughts on this are many. So this weekend I will write them up and place them in a separate post. .

Anyway, a new Land Cruiser drove in front of us the other day and she commented "is that what the newer Land Cruisers are these days? Hmmm, not bad, we might have to take a look". So clearly she is giving up on LR based on the current models coming out.

Many a pragmatic wife will say, after learning the dependability and long term build quality of the LC vs LR, "yeah, let's just get a LC and not have to worry about much for many many years..." The modification types of us can rally behind the freedom LC offers whether it's as simple as stuffing a big tire in or more complex like lifting via a truly upgraded suspension or adding fuel and water tanks.

While the D5 front seats may be pretty sweet, the LR3/4 seats are just ok and not much compared to the hvac LC seats. The lr3 sunroof has always and will forever annoy me that it's barely big enough to let air in while the LC design you could crawl up through to get into a RTT if mounted for that purpose or whatever reason.

While the lr3 rear glass roof is nice light, it's always a liability. When going into any woods trails I am sure to have my Hannibal rack on...not to carry anything, but to protect the glass from branches.

This could turn into a 1000 word rant so I'll end it now...