LR3 HSE Oil Pan Gasket

bucktown · Feb 16, 2013

Hi all,

So Ive noticed a small puddle of oil appearing under the lr3 every once in a while, and finally decided to pull the skid plates off to have a look. It appears to be leaking from the corner of the oil pan, passenger side front corner. Everything else appears to be dry.

I popped in to my local dealer to grab a new air filter, and asked what they would charge me for an instal of a new gasket.

they told me that there isn't a gasket, and quoted me 16.5 hours to do it?!

That isnt even remotely correct is it? please tell me that they thought i meant the main seal or something and that this is a simple job of dropping the pan, cleaning the mating surface, and putting on a new gasket...

bucktown · Feb 17, 2013

I found a pdf of the removal of the oil pan....apparently the oil cooler, front engine cover, front differential, axle assembly, steering rack, and generator need to be removed, and a wheel alignment is required after reassembly.....to replace an OIL PAN GASKET. Who designs these cars?!

This is a joke right? There has to be an easier way to fix this miniscule little oil drip. Does anyone know of an easier way to access this part? can I get the pan to drop far enough to snake a gasket in there?

I cant link the pdf, its too big. but if youre a member here, you can see it in this thread

http://landrover forums.com/forum/lr3-28/oil-pan-stripped-54213/

bbyer · Feb 17, 2013

probably correct unfortunately

The reality you are experiencing is what happens when you purchase a race truck that is also a very good 4x4.

You start with a Jag engine, heavy it up with deeper than before cast alloy, (not tin), oil sump, (not pan), so that the oil pickup will still be immersed in oil when the vehicle is on a 45 degree side slope engine while pointing to the sky.

Add in a full frame on a unit body and you end up with cross members and other structural elements that no vehicle other than the Mercedes G-Wagon requires. Removal of the transmission oil pan, while not as tortured, is another example of not typical or not what you would normally see.

Land Rover did not include the engine skid plate as standard because it is a 4x4. It was to protect themselves just to get the vehicle thru the 4 year warranty period without a rock or similar cracking the pan as they know how expensive it is to replace.

bucktown · Feb 17, 2013

bbyer said:
The reality you are experiencing is what happens when you purchase a race truck that is also a very good 4x4.

You start with a Jag engine, heavy it up with deeper than before cast alloy, (not tin), oil sump, (not pan), so that the oil pickup will still be immersed in oil when the vehicle is on a 45 degree side slope engine while pointing to the sky.

Add in a full frame on a unit body and you end up with cross members and other structural elements that no vehicle other than the Mercedes G-Wagon requires. Removal of the transmission oil pan, while not as tortured, is another example of not typical or not what you would normally see.

Land Rover did not include the engine skid plate as standard because it is a 4x4. It was to protect themselves just to get the vehicle thru the 4 year warranty period without a rock or similar cracking the pan as they know how expensive it is to replace.

Sigh. Thank you very much for the reply. I guess I need to get under there and see if I can confirm exactly where this leak is coming from before I commit myself to this job. I am reasonably confident that it is a break in the silicone gasket material on that corner of the sump pan.

If I'm correct and the pan isn't cracked etc, any suggestion to stop this leak without having to pull the engine? Is it possible its leaking through the bolt hole on that corner and I can just fill it with "the right stuff" and replace the bolt or something?

bbyer · Feb 18, 2013

Oil filter leaking?

What is odd is that there are very few, (like none that I can find), posts regarding oil pan leaks where the pan joins the bottom of the block. The diesels do leak, something related to the turbos, but oil pan, that is rare.

What is not impossible however is a leaking oil filter - perhaps there are two rubber seals up at the mating surface at the threaded end rather than one, that sort of thing. 13 ft lbs torque and I think there is an oil filter adapter bolted to the block, 44 ft lbs torque.

And I agree, the pan will not be cracked, and yes, it can be just a leak between the mating pieces - might just try torquing the bolts up at that corner. 15 ft lbs torque or lb-ft as some say. The oil pan is what is known as a "Structural Sump." Also there is no gasket as we might know one between the Structural Sump and what is called the "Bed Pan". The seal is a bead of sealant as the mating surfaces are machined etc; the Structural Sump helps to improve engine rigidity.

Also the Bed Pan is what holds the crankshaft in. It does the job of the crankshaft bearing caps - there are five bearings as we know them, but the caps are not done one at a time; the bed plate is a sort of one piece bearing cap for the five crankshaft hold downs - racing engine this is, not truck engine. At least it is not the fracture-split style of bearing cap that the piston con rods use.

Needless to say, the engine cannot be rebuilt from underneath with the block still in the frame, Chevy style.

Also there is an oil cooler within the radiator so there can be a loose pipe joint at the rad or at the oil filter end.

bucktown · Feb 18, 2013

bbyer said:
What is odd is that there are very few, (like none that I can find), posts regarding oil pan leaks where the pan joins the bottom of the block. The diesels do leak, something related to the turbos, but oil pan, that is rare.

What is not impossible however is a leaking oil filter - perhaps there are two rubber seals up at the mating surface at the threaded end rather than one, that sort of thing. 13 ft lbs torque and I think there is an oil filter adapter bolted to the block, 44 ft lbs torque.

And I agree, the pan will not be cracked, and yes, it can be just a leak between the mating pieces - might just try torquing the bolts up at that corner. 15 ft lbs torque or lb-ft as some say. The oil pan is what is known as a "Structural Sump." Also there is no gasket as we might know one between the Structural Sump and what is called the "Bed Pan". The seal is a bead of sealant as the mating surfaces are machined etc; the Structural Sump helps to improve engine rigidity.

Also the Bed Pan is what holds the crankshaft in. It does the job of the crankshaft bearing caps - there are five bearings as we know them, but the caps are not done one at a time; the bed plate is a sort of one piece bearing cap for the five crankshaft hold downs - racing engine this is, not truck engine. At least it is not the fracture-split style of bearing cap that the piston con rods use.

Needless to say, the engine cannot be rebuilt from underneath with the block still in the frame, Chevy style.

Also there is an oil cooler within the radiator so there can be a loose pipe joint at the rad or at the oil filter end.

There haven't been any posts I can find either, that's kind of whats been scaring me lol. I'm pretty convinced that it is leaking from the seam, although I'm really hoping is coming from pretty much anywhere else. I'm going to crawl under there tomorrow and take some pictures to post here.

Unfortunately Ive checked the torque on the bolts, they were fine across the board. Very difficult to resist the urge to crank them tighter though...

It started leaking after I went on a road trip through the mountains, I had gotten an oil change immediately before hitting the road. The highway was full of skid plate-deep snow for about 100 kms, and truth be told, I wasn't driving slow. I started to notice the drips on the garage floor directly after.

I assumed it was a loose filter or drain plug, so I went back to the location to have it checked out. I went down in the pit for myself and checked the torque on the bolts after seeing that the drain plug and filter were both dry. Cleaned it up, put everything back together, went on my way.

I put up with the leak for another few thousand kms and decided to try another oil change. Same drip, checked bolts again, still tight.

And now here I am. Only thing I can think of is either the leak is higher and dripping onto that corner somehow, or I crammed a bunch of snow into the skid plate and subsequently into the seam and ruined the seal. :ahhhhh:

bbyer · Feb 18, 2013

Oil filter adapter for oil filter.

The oil filter screws to what I call an adapter casting that then bolts to the engine block - each surface being a potential leak point.

The best reason to resist giving the structural sump retainer bolts just a bit more is that the bit more could mean you learn how to insert Heli-Coils into the alloy bed plate - something no one really wants to know.

It sounds however like you have a pretty good handle on the real problem. I was just hoping it was something easier.

bucktown · Feb 23, 2013

So apparently, I am an idiot. But a fortunate idiot.

The leak is coming from the front passenger corner of the transmission pan. In my blind anger at the leak, and based on the fact that I had no idea of how a structural sump pan was affixed to an engine block, I assumed based on what I was told that the tranny pan was the oil pan. Let this be a lesson: look for yourself, don't trust what other people tell you.

I still think the cause was the same (loose skid plate bolts from oil change place and high speed mountain passes jamming snow everywhere) but lucky for me the solution is much more simple than a total deconstruction of the front of my truck.

Skidpans off, shiny from the oil. You can just see the wet corner of the tranny pan

Drivers side looking towards rear of truck. Dry as a bone.

Passenger side, not so dry.

Clearly not coming from anywhere above.

So there we have it, crisis averted. Any ideas of a simple fix I can to to tide me over until parts get here? The torque specs on those little bolts is like 6 lb.ft, I would assume that trying to crank them a little tighter would be a bad idea?

http://www.**************/gallery/albums/userpics/15405/Fluid_Pan%2C_Gasket_and_Filter_removal_and_install.pdf

bucktown · Feb 24, 2013

double post

bbyer · Feb 24, 2013

So it is the transmission pan.

Replacing the transmission pan is not exactly simple, but it certainly is doable.
There is a round rubber gasket between the plastic transmission pan the the metal of the transmission body. I would say you can tighten up the Torx bolts but just to spec - that should not hurt anything.

The link has some jpg's that show the bolts bit. Note Ford versions tend to use a metal pan, shorter screws and a normal flat gasket. The LR3 is not normal.

The link below is to a number of files I have related to our ZF 6HP26X transmission and the pan change.

http://www.**************/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5059

Replace the **** with disco3 co uk and insert a period in each of the two spaces.

LR3 HSE Oil Pan Gasket

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