Bosh engine Q

Discussion in 'Discovery' started by superrocco16v, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. BeemerNut

    BeemerNut Full Access Member

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    [QUOTE="Every now-and-then you'll come across a expert like beemer who's willing to take the time to share the best inside knowledge.
    here's some good advise. stop running the 4.6 immediately to improve the possibility of the original block to be re-sleeved using the top-hat cylinder technology.[/QUOTE]"

    Mike, i'm not an "expert", just a engine nut and gear head to the max. Always learning besides finding ways of taking things a step further than the basic factory stock engine.
    Fueling LR's for the USA already too lean, a death wish on these engines. Ignition advance set by factory is a general all around ballpark timing to cover all bases due to different octane, temperatures and altitudes these LR's will encounter. Every engine of the same displacement will respond differently to different drivers and how they drive. Lead foot comes to mind.
    It's all in the details working on engines as several little details adds up to one bigger oveall improvement in engine operation.
    Several years ago I was chastised for "hot rodding a LR as they are suppose to slow but capable vehicles". Yeah right a Hugo blowing me away. The 4.6 transplant with my little tricks and details improving how it runs. Fast forward to app 2015 era reading the LR forum about a handful of 5.7 litre 350 chevy transplants. That's a sin that I would never do to my D1.

    BTW, I removed the air box snorkel which had an inlet diameter smaller than my pecker, yup that small that's sucking in hot under the hood air temps.
    Removed the snorkel then hose clamped to the short nipple on air box two short 3" diameter 45* rubber hose tubes off an early Ford 4 cylinder engine's intake tract. Two 45's with a short piece of 3" exhaust tubing coupling them together for a perfect offset air duct ending up behind the left headlight through the radiator support hole for access to the headlight socket. Cold ram air protected by the solid grill area around this intake feeding the intake from the slotted grill feeding the radiator. No rain water problems entering the intake. With this modification vs factory snorkel there's a difference in performance you can feel by the "Butt-O-Meter.

    With "superroco" above reply, why not pick up a used 4.0 block (more common than a 4.6) and have it modified to top flange. Install your 4.6 crank and rods. A sure bet to install a true double row timing chain and gear set plus check and install rocker shaft stand shims for proper the proper lifter preload.
    Install the cam with 3* to 4* advanced position allowing for timing chain stretch as the miles add up over the years. This also giving you slightly lower rpm torque numbers. .....~~=o&o>.....
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  2. Mrdadaxt

    Mrdadaxt Member

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    OK! are you guys and gals reading this!!!!!!!
    what Beemer has shared is like unobtainium (I think that was a Superman term.)
    to set the record straight, Beemer is not an expert. He just has more hands on knowledge than 90% of
    the folks that still are able to maintain the Land Rovers with the Buick/Rover aluminum V8.
    If anyone reading this is too old to learn something new (every day I hope,) then please don't comment.
    After all, this is a technical forum.
    In beemer's past notes he shared that the modernization from the dribble lucas injectors to the Bosch ceramic injectors and 3.0 bar regulator felt like as big of a performance improvement btwn a 3.9 & 4.6 engine.
    Something new since the last time I was researching the fuel injectors available for the 4.6 is now available through
    fiveomotorsports - they now have available a ceramic 4 nozzle spray injector for the 2.5 bar replacement for the Lucus stock units. The description indicates that these are substantial improvement over stock (and no reason to have any doubt.)
    Notice these are not the upgraded specs of 19lb, 3.0 bar spec'd performance that produce the kick in the driver's seat described by beemer.
    I can't even begin to thank you enough beemer for sharing your work with all of us. For everyone needing to inform their selves
    with the tech specs of the fuel injectors available for the Rover V8 please read thoroughly on fiveomotorsports.com
    The fuel injector site is almost exhaustive. but still clear for the stock lucas and bosch units fot the LRs.
    I'll not be able to do the upgrade on the injectors and fuel pressure regulator until early next summer realistically.
    I owe a great deal to guys like beemer and others on the plentiful Land Rover web sites for all of their help on maintaining and improving our LRs over the last 20 years.
    It was time for me to encourage everybody else running the Buick/Rover V8 that the gem aluminum V8 is worth keeping and improving. I love driving this 4.6 powered D2.
    The reason the 3.9 & 4.2 block is not emphasized has to do with the main bearings that secure the crankshaft.
    All 4.0 & 4.6 blocks are 4 bolt main design and are the block to invest in. To keep from bothering beemer on why superrocco can more easily obtain the 4.0 four bolt block with the internals - crankshaft, rods, & piston - from his 4.6, the bore is the same
    between the two engines. that simple and very, very effective suggestion is $$$.
    Most of us LR enthusiast are going to best reach a goal of a 4.6 powered Disco with the factory performance specs of the Bosch controlled motor need the Bosch late '99 - '04 D2. myself included, most simply do not have the aptitude or time for the modifications that are simply intuitive to somebody like Beemer to get the performance from the GEMS controlled engines.
    I'm going to have some fun with beemer now - the lack of power in the 3.9 5sp manual D1 drove me crazy. well heck yea it drove and ran great. but, it only had around 180 hp and was a real nuisance in 1st & 2nd gear (the end) to a new powerful truck or 4X. and I have owned & own some very high performance vehicles. Knowing how awesome a D1/D2 could be with a great engine was then and is still the driving force here. A correctly modified 4.6 is a real pleasure to drive.
    But, here comes the real fun - would be incredible with a latest technology crate engine from Ford!
     
  3. BeemerNut

    BeemerNut Full Access Member

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    [QUOTE="Mrdadaxt,
    But, here comes the real fun - would be incredible with a latest technology crate engine from Ford![/QUOTE]

    Just visualize a Ford 5.0 Coyote engine transplanted into a D1 w/5 spd. I can dream can't I?
    Forget about low rpm tq rock crawling ability in a heavy D1 but what a blast it would be on the highway. I'm a fan of stroker engines especially the Ford FE series engines. I'm a FE die hard, they will run.
    Stuff a 427 FE block ($$$) with a 428 crank (454 ci) topped off with medium riser heads ($$$), machined aluminum intake with welded in bungs for a MPI system. Yum yum!
    Back in 1-2000 after taking ownership of the 95 D1 I was already looking into what fits with a 4.0/4.6 block stuffed with a reworked 300 Buick crank. Keeping it stock looking externally to pass Kalifornia smog's visual. A perfect stroker to pull this heavy Disco around. Road handling improvements were priority one on the D1.
    Sorry, got me rambling off topic.....~~=o&o>.....
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  4. Mrdadaxt

    Mrdadaxt Member

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    if we live long enough and healthy enough it's do-able. And why Ford? a tribute to the motor company that saved the Land Rover & Jaguar group. Ford supercharged the engineering BMW began to bring back these two manufacturers.
    Ford's involvement in Jaguar was the reason and continues to be the reason why I buy Jaguars.
    If not the rover aluminum V8 then its got to be a Ford drive train(this 2 cents and a dollar will get you a cup of joe.)
    now alot of folks are thinking "why not a Jag drive train?"
    well, if you thought building a 4.6 aluminum Rover V8 is difficult and, your last name is not "kindigit" ...
     
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  5. BeemerNut

    BeemerNut Full Access Member

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    I tried them all and torture tested them, Ramblers, Javelin, 67 Dodge PU w/318 3 on tree a gutless gas hog, 66 Chrysler 300 gifted in cherry condition, 80 Volvo w/the PVR engine, the same as in the DMC, gifted 68 bowtie PU me thinking Pee Wee Herman's bowtie jackoff but after several exploded engines I quit GM's. Most trouble free the 84 Mitsubishi Montero Sport it would handle narrow trails with ease. Only problem Calif. smog would not allow me to swap the 2.6 four for the 3.0 V6 which was offered in the 89 Montero 2 door a one year wonder in the US. Growing family hence the 1-2000 D1 purchase. Back in 77 a 69 F250 (step), sold it at 922K miles (yes 922K) as a 68 F250 Camper Special (69K) came up in 2000 this a keeper. Stupid 360 2 barrel, C6 with 3.54 gears, a gutless turd with the monster cab over camper. In went the scratch built 410 w/427, LR heads, internally balanced crank, SS valves w/ hard seats for unleaded swill back in 86 now its in the 68 CS. Always a FE fan unless toying with two friends 65 442's w/400 engines. By 67 smog then worse in 69 the 442's 400's became total turds.
    Traveling to England, Spain, Malaysia, Bangkok, Singapore and Thailand exploring back in the bush sure enough a 40 to 60 year old Ford PU still hauling the goods to market. Didn't see any GM "Garbage Manufactured" products just a lot of Toyota's and 2 stroke scooters zinging around. Top Gear's Limey version the trip by motorcycles across Vietnam you must watch.
    A sad day when Ford dropped their line of modular engines, the likes of the 5.4 in the Ford GT ( repop of the GT40) proved they can handle 11 to 1,400 hp daily. Old 392 Hemi tough.
    The 3.0 V6 my daughter's 04 Escape and the wifey's 10 Escape have a heart and run great 240K on the 04 a rescued vehicle. Both trouble free vehicles a total of 345K miles.
    I wish the old box body Escapes 04 to 10 came with the 3.5 liter in RWD only.
    BTW Porsche designed the twin cam 3.0 V6 engines that Ford manufactured in the US.
    Take the Coyote and get rid of the flat plane (vibrator) crank and install a stroker for more practical lower rpm tq would have some possibilities besides ripping up the streets in a light Mustang. Check out the twin brother to my 68 F250 CS, identical color combination;
    https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1558822-where-is-a-good-place-to-sell-an-old-truck.html Hope this doesn't ban me for posting another forum? .....~~=o&o>......
     
  6. BeemerNut

    BeemerNut Full Access Member

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    I forgot to add in regards to D1 3.9 engine powered LR owner problems.
    The IAC (idle air control) valve an expensive little critter nesting at the right rear location of the plenum cover near the top.
    The IAC pintle can get gummed up over time and mileage then start functioning intermittently. You'll notice random unstable idle rpm problems like too high or low idle.
    More noticeable dealing with a 5 speed LR vs automatic.
    A few careful blasts of Berrymann B12 carb cleaner removing carbon buildup on the coarse threaded pintle shank then blasted with compressed air. Cycle it with a 12 volt power source. Do not overdue it with B12 as it can possibly attack the stepper motor's varnished windings.
    Once cleaned do not add oil to the pintle thread as it will attract more carbon and gum up again.
    Apply dry film moly spray lubricant (the best) with liquid graphite lock lube (second and not as good) as they both become a dry film lubricant once the transfer solvent evaporates for a smooth and normal functioning IAC unit.
    Atlantic British has IAC unit listed at $169.95 (OUCH, competing with LR's pricing?) is the exact same IAC unit as used on late 80's to early 90's era V6 powered Camaro's.
    Rock Auto lists several IAC's from $7.75 up to $61.99, aftermarket quality???
    Better off looking in Pick-n-Pulls or Pick Your Parts collecting a couple IAC units as spares once cleaned and lubed. Rover engines were a GM product hence finding them in Camaros.
    Failure of the vacuum advance unit another not a cheap replacement item known to fail as any diaphragm leakage at all the small restricted vacuum signal will be lost.
    The vacuum signal is coming from a small metal nipple located off the top of the plenum at the throttle butterfly location. This nipple only has a 0.011" diameter restriction hole for a slow or delayed ignition advance and retard signal to the diaphragm. Any diaphragm leakage at all you've lose that signal hence no vacuum advance and just the mechanical advance inside the distributor. Mechanical advance another item unit that should be cleaned and lubricated to function properly. Mechanical advance spring swaps as well the arms supporting one end of these two springs can be bent altering the spring tensions readjusting when the mechanical advance rpm's begin above the initial timing.
    Failure of vacuum, mechanical or both advance units makes for a sluggish running LR more than they already are. IAC unit:
    Prost.....~~=o&o>..... [​IMG]
     
  7. superrocco16v

    superrocco16v Member

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    [​IMG]
    So I guess this is a 4.0 ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. BeemerNut

    BeemerNut Full Access Member

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    Looks like a keeper to me being a 4.6, 9.35 CR as long as the cylinder liners haven't been slipping up and down with no cracks in the block behind the liners.
    Future top hat project?.....~~=o&o>.....
     
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  9. superrocco16v

    superrocco16v Member

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    Yes so is a 4.6, this is the donor for my lr2


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  10. BeemerNut

    BeemerNut Full Access Member

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    Sad part when all the D1's are gone what is left?
    The new "high tech 5.0 litre engines with their failing timing chain problems eating themselves up until a CEL comes on making a racket costing $5-$9K in parts replacements and labor to do it again adding more miles. No thanks besides they all look the same these days vs the design character the D1 has. Maybe i'm different (odd) also owning vehicles of the 60's and 50's also? PROST.....~~=o&o>......
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018

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