Lr4 Brakes

[MottMcfly]

This is the first high performance truck I've owned so please excuse me if this question might seem elementary.

What happens to the rotor that it needs to be changed so frequently? It was my understanding that you could keep using the same rotors unless you let the pads degrade enough to gouge them.

I had 50K on my original rotors from my 2007 Nissan Pathfinder and they were still fine after the last brake service which was at 45k. I understand that the Pathfinder weighs quite a bit less.

Thanks,

Marty

 

[CaptainSpalding]

We're still under 5k miles with our LR4, and so not close to even a premature brake replacement. But we used to have an '04 Disco that needed pads and rotors every 11k like clockwork. And it was really irritating.

This is not an issue of the brakes being "high performance."

It's not the result of a lead-footed driver.

It's not an issue of the vehicle being heavy either.

It's an issue of the case hardening being too thin and the pads being too hard. I have no doubt that the short lifespan of the brakes is no accident. It's a huge profit center for Land Rover.

I have a Defender that is my own daily driver. I bought it at 75k miles, just passed 125k, and haven't touched the brakes. And I wheel it to boot. There is no excuse for the short lifespan of the brakes on newer trucks. For a properly designed vehicle under normal driving conditions, the pads should not be eating through the case hardening of the rotors every 12,000 miles.

 

[MottMcfly]

"It's an issue of the case hardening being too thin and the pads being too hard. I have no doubt that the short lifespan of the brakes is no accident. It's a huge profit center for Land Rover.

I have a Defender that is my own daily driver. I bought it at 75k miles, just passed 125k, and haven't touched the brakes. And I wheel it to boot. There is no excuse for the short lifespan of the brakes on newer trucks. For a properly designed vehicle under normal driving conditions, the pads should not be eating through the case hardening of the rotors every 12,000 miles.[/QUOTE]"

Well that's just a shame and an expensive one at that. So hence my next stupid question: What rotors and pads can be installed to rectify the premature demise? I'm assuming nothing can be done with what was installed by the factory but what about when they do go bad and it's time for a change? Are there options at that point?

Marty

 

[LR4mywife]

Okay....so I just returned from the dealer where I had them......

Perform the first (15K) maintenance on my wife's LR4. I was hugely interested in seeing what they had to say about "brake wear", and low and behold the response went something like this:

"Brakes are in fantastic condition, look like they are better then 80% or more, from the looks of it"!

Okay, I was intrigued so I asked the service manager if he felt that was normal, or if it really varied from customer to customer, to which he said:

"Since LR redesigned the brakes for the LR4 (from the LR3), they not only work better, they seem to be holding up much better".

In a continued conversation, he said that I should easily expect something like 50K plus out of the brakes given they way the look and the fact that I have almost 15K miles on the truck.

I'd also like to mention that other then a goofy glitch with the radio / NAV screen that has occurred twice, then disappeared, there's been NO issues to speak of, and this has been my one and only stop back at the dealer since I picked it up last summer. So much for LR's not being reliable......Pfffffffffft!!!!!!

Cheers all,

Joe

 

[p-dawger]

McFly - you in there?

Case hardening? What exactly is that? Never heard of that term in reference to rotors. Are you talking about the metalurgy of the rotor and the sand casting method used to produce them?

If you are going through brakes every 12k - you are driving with two feet. Period.

Also - "huge profit center for Land Rover" Might want to recheck that. Land Rover is in business to make and sell cars - not service them. There is zero "profit center" in replacing brakes or anything else on a vehicle. They sell them and "happen" to have a service center - so they can sell more of them. (And do warranty work (which happens to fall into the same "profit center" as brake repair. Do you actually kow what the profit margins are on repair shops? Slim and slimmer.

It's hysterical that people think that there is a conspiracy theory for car designers to build in premature part failure. They want you to buy new cars - not replace parts on the old ones.

BTW...we did really land on the moon.

 

[MottMcfly]

McFly - you in there?

Case hardening? What exactly is that? Never heard of that term in reference to rotors. Are you talking about the metalurgy of the rotor and the sand casting method used to produce them?

If you are going through brakes every 12k - you are driving with two feet. Period.

Also - "huge profit center for Land Rover" Might want to recheck that. Land Rover is in business to make and sell cars - not service them. There is zero "profit center" in replacing brakes or anything else on a vehicle. They sell them and "happen" to have a service center - so they can sell more of them. (And do warranty work (which happens to fall into the same "profit center" as brake repair. Do you actually kow what the profit margins are on repair shops? Slim and slimmer.

It's hysterical that people think that there is a conspiracy theory for car designers to build in premature part failure. They want you to buy new cars - not replace parts on the old ones.

BTW...we did really land on the moon.

I don't think anyone's suggesting a conspiracy issue here and I don't think there's as much drama as your post would suggest.

We are simply discussing an event.

Event: Required replacement of rotors at 15K. If you think that's normal, then fine.

Also: I believe you are incorrect in your assesment that car manufactures make no profit on repairs.

Thanks,

Marty

 

[toddjb122]

Glad to hear the LR4 brakes are wearing well. I have to say I've had no problems with the wear on my LR3. Maybe I was lucky. ?


But, I'm mainly replying about the "profit center" comment. The service bay is a HUGE PROFIT center for the dealer. HUMONGOUS!!!! I'm sure there has to be some percentage of kickback that goes back to the dealer.

Have you noticed how HAPPY your service rep is to find any work on your vehicle that can be charged to the Warranty? That is like free money for everyone. You don't care because it is covered, and it's good for him because he can charge the book hourly rate to "Warranty" and get credit for his 2 hours of labor that only took 30 minutes. Oh sure, somewhere there is a guy representing the Warranty side of things making sure there aren't fraudulent charges, but it's big business either way. Keeps the techs employed, keeps the stock room ordering parts, and is a free service call for the owner. Win Win Win!

Now, does it look good for the brand to have their cars in for repair often? Of course not.

 

[LRnewbie11]

Isn't the service center at ALL dealerships almost 100% profit?

 

[LRnewbie11]

It sure seems that way.

 

[p-dawger]

You guys are talking two different things.

Service Departments "can be" huge profits centers, but the way they are run and the way the dealer treats the cutomers - they are not. They barely cover costs. Unless you are doing a huge repair out of warrranty. What I am saying - it aint on brakes.

Jiffy Lube, Pep Boys, Firstone, NTB Merchants make money on auto service, Midas and Meineke - make money on brakes.

The dealer charges too much initially for these minor items - so they have no volume. There is no money to be made on a $23.95 oil change. There is money to be made on a water pump replacement or a timing belt replacement...but those folks who use a local service provider will most likely go there instead for these items.

Ever notice how dealers are now offering to sell tires or offering to service any make or model at there dealership? They are looking to make a profit on volume.

Regular service items like brakes, tires, fluid changes etc...no money to be made. Margins are too slim and parts markup - while high is not high enough to pay a ASE certified tech and dealer certified service technician to do the work.

Add on courtesy car loaner services, fancy waiting rooms with wifi, coffee etc, free detailing and car cleaning services for each car you service (for high end dealerships) and you have zero profit when all said and done.