Rigid brake line failed - need help with info on parts

[Quijote]

I didn't find much info, so perhaps this thread will help others.

It's been a while since I've been active primarily because we don't drive our LR4 much and it has been good. Our 2013 only has 62k miles, but it has seen New England salt every winter since we bought it new. Yesterday, the red "BRAKE" light came on and a message warned of low brake fluid level. Not good. Luckily I was less than 2 miles from home. Once home, I could see there is a massive brake fluid leak from the center rear of the car. I cannot see how it could be anything else other than the rigid brake line failing due to corrosion. I will find out for sure tomorrow, when I will put the LR4 up on the lift (fortunately, I have a 10k-lb, two-post lift). So, yes, I plan to tackle this myself.

Digging around, I found the video below, which I suspect is exactly what I will need to do, down to cutting the lines mid-way and splicing them to avoid tearing apart the whole car.

What I would like to confirm, if one of you guys can, is that I am getting the right parts. From what I dug, I have bought the following:

- 50' of 3/16 (4.75mm) Ultrabend (NiCu alloy) brake line
- Brake line bending tools
- Lisle 33260 flaring tool kit (apparently a bubble flare is just the first step on a double flare)

What I need to get now is the fittings. Could one of you please help confirm the size? I am pretty sure that they are M10 x 1.0.

Thank you!

 

[Quijote]

I'll follow up my own thread for the benefit of others.

In short, the fittings are M10x1 bubble (aka single flare) fittings.

I did most of the job today. A few observations:

- It's impossible to the the job without removing the exhaust, and since I did not want to deal with the cat flanges, I simply cut off the 2nd muffler. I will have a local shop weld it back on.
- I got the fancy-pants SUR Ultrabend (Cu-Ni) line. Glad I did. It's basically impossible to remove the section of old line without bending it weirdly, much less feeding a pre-bent rigid line. The Ultrabend stuff was easier to feed through and easy enough to bend by hand once fed through. I know the German guy on the video seems to have manage to do the job with the more rigid steel lines, but he must not have other options I/we have (air suspension, V8, etc.). He also removed the full exhaust, but other than more room to stick your hands through, that would not have helped the feeding of a rigid line with all those bends.

The replacement lines are all in, but it was a long day. Tomorrow I will flush the fluid and hope for no leaks. Then it's off to a test drive. If all is good, then I will drive the LR4 to have its muffler welded back on.

 

[Quijote]

2nd update. I performed a brake flush with a motive pump (dry method). I did all 4 corners until new fluid came out with no bubbles. The reservoir was close to empty (?) when I started.

The good news is that I see no leaks under 20 PSI and after pushing the brake pedal. The bad news is that the pedal feels way soft, so clearly I have air in the system. Perhaps the reservoir got too low and there is a massive air bubble somewhere?

Any tips?

 

[Quijote]

3rd update.

Success! From researching, it seems I must have had air in the ABS module, which cannot be fixed manually. Luckily, the GAP tool has a setting for this. It asked me to open the bleeder valve and then "pump" the brake pedal in each corner. Not sure what it meant by "pump." Push once and hold, or continuously keep on pumping? I had the system pressurized anyway, so I only pumped a few times.

A few key observations for anyone doing this:

- The sequence was rear-left, front-left, front-right, and rear-right.
- For the left side corners, there was a 20 second timer for bleeding. However, it continued and went negative for another 40 or so seconds before telling you to close the bleeder valve.
- It's during the front right corner where the action happens. That corner takes about 5 minutes in total (with some weirdness about the timer going negative, then time increasing to 120 seconds only to count down again). But it is here where you hear crazy pumping noises off an on. Be patient.
- A key watch out is to keep the reservoir full. The process, done after I had already done a manual flush, used the better part of a quart.
- I probably should have done this with the car running, because the battery would time out on accessory mode. It wanted me to redo the whole process when I was about to start the rear right, but I felt pretty good about having had fixed the problem by then, and as I mentioned, I had already flushed the fluid before.

Anyway, brake pedal feels good. No leaks. I will test drive it on Friday AM and assuming it all holds, will get the muffler re-welded. Car sounds pretty bad ass with no muffler. LOL

 

[ugmw177]

well, you beat me to it, i read this and was going to post "air in the ABS hydraulic module" and how it cannot be bled manually. glad you figured it out.
For whatever it is worth, i had a shop replace my rigid lines several years ago as they were rusted and weeping [not long to failure]. I was having them replace the EPB module and they bumped one of the lines and it began severe leakage. They ordered the hard lines from JLR, removed the complete exhaust and replaced them then reinstalled the exhaust so i guess it is doable but doesn't look fun at all. JLR should have coated those lines as hard as they are to replace.

 

[Quijote]

well, you beat me to it, i read this and was going to post "air in the ABS hydraulic module" and how it cannot be bled manually. glad you figured it out.
For whatever it is worth, i had a shop replace my rigid lines several years ago as they were rusted and weeping [not long to failure]. I was having them replace the EPB module and they bumped one of the lines and it began severe leakage. They ordered the hard lines from JLR, removed the complete exhaust and replaced them then reinstalled the exhaust so i guess it is doable but doesn't look fun at all. JLR should have coated those lines as hard as they are to replace.

Thanks anyway!

My understanding based on the diagram, is that the rigid lines go from the rear corners as a straight shot all the way to the engine bay and that the only way to replace them "by the book" is to do a body-off-frame job. The lines are also so long that it is impractical to ship them pre-bent. Your mechanic must have bent them to shape and likely did a similar job to what I did with a mid-vehicle splice. It's the smart, practical move. But this is just a guess.

As for the lines being steel, yeah, that is BS. This is why I bought the premium Cu-Ni alloy lines that will never rust. Amazing to think that ANY manufacturer would use anything else, but perhaps there is a reason beyond cost.

 

[Quijote]

Final update: Muffler was welded back on and all is well.

 

[Frank8]

Thank you for this!