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ycharlie

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I blame everyone here who only uses 20% of what their vehicle was built for.

i can bet you less than 20% of the people who bought an LR4 intended to take it off road, let along what you said. i am sure you've utilized the vehicle's capabilities and then some, but this doesnt apply to everyone. in fact, it doesnt apply to the majority. it's cool what you do. but coming off a bit egocentric is why there are so much childish bickering going around here.

personally, i use my car to go from point a to b. please forgive me if there's no mountain sized boulder in that path. most of my adventures of choice are out of the car, not in it.
 

baobay

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Well, it's an interesting issue you've brought up. Today's Land Rovers have a lot of charisma, to be sure. Some of that is owed to Land Rover's past. I have a Defender 90. It differs drastically from the LR4. It cost around $35k. It was unsophisticated, even new, and compared to the LR4 it is absolutely barbaric. Flat glass all around. Sheet metal spot welds are unapologetically visible everywhere. Hand crank windows. The seats slide on simple tracks. No leather. No wood. It's old school to be sure. What it lacks in luxury, however, it makes up in utility and capability. It has 16" wheels and coil springs over solid axles. It has a center locking diff that I can engage when I feel like it. In an hour and a half I can lift it 3 inches, fit real 35" off-road tires on it, and tackle obstacles that the LR4 couldn't hope to get past.

Since my D90 was built, the Land Rover marque has evolved away from utility and towards luxury. Price and complexity have risen, and as we all know, complexity is the enemy of reliability. Don't get me wrong. Land Rover had reliability issues back when my Defender was built, but in a way that's different from today. The Defender (and the first generation Discovery) were well-designed trucks that were indifferently built. The first owner would encounter problems owing to whichever manufacturing defects applied to his particular specimen, but once those were sorted out, the vehicle was more or less reliable. My 90 is fourteen years old and it's my (almost) daily driver. The LR4 is a different animal. The terrain response system is a marvel. It lets someone who has no idea how to drive off road drive off road. Same with HDC and all the other ****-bang enhancements. But it is so complicated that the opportunity for an expedition-halting failure is huge. My LR4 recently had an electrical problem that took 5 weeks to diagnose and involved bringing in a technical specialist from another state. I will go places in my Defender that I wouldn't dream of going in the LR4, because I have so much more confidence that the Defender will bring me back. Because of its complexity and the attendant lack of reliability, my LR4 might see a few snow covered roads or fire roads, but it will never get too far off the beaten path, never out of the cell phone coverage area, and never beyond reach of a tow truck.

Then there's the cost factor. Back when Defenders were available new here in the U.S., they were a posh option to a Jeep Wrangler. Land Rover didn't compete with BMW and Mercedes like they do today. You have to have a LOT of money before it makes sense to risk wheeling a $60,000 vehicle. I remember when the LR3 came out. Not too many folks wheeled them at first. It was only after a few years had passed, when the trucks were on their 2nd or 3rd owners, and their values had dropped substantially, that people began to wheel them more. And the same will be true with the LR4, I'm sure.

And so I feel, sir, that your angst is misplaced. The LR4 is too new and too valuable to be seeing very many threads of trip reports and photos of trail rash.

YMMV.

Extremely well said Captain!!! I agree 110% with every single word you said.
 

blackforestham

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Cheers nerve64!



Even if it's just fire roads, I still get stoked to be away from the City. It just kills me to see such a capable vehicle being used as a Honda Element. I'm coming from a history of Jeeps and fullsized with Dana 60's and lockers. These are amazing vehicles and I just get bummed out that the LRX and the proposed watered down D90 are faint images of what the Land Rover Marque used to be. The Camel Trophy is what tugged at my heart to ditch slopping through mud holes and move to the next level of Expeditions and Overlanding - destinations of substance. I don't expect owners to bash their rigs, stripe their paint or dent their panels. If 95% of the owners stay on road, we'll be left with Luxo-rigs and endless elctro-wizardry to keep the chihuahua warm and comfy. Just my opinion and we all know the saying. I wasn't ******** or whining. I just feel that this and every other forum is suffering from a lack of adventurous owners who are unwilling to explore due to the price tag. This is a shame.

Hope to see you on the trails!
 
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alexcorral

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Blackforestham,

I get you. I thought the same way about BMW GS riders. The bike is made to take you anywhere, yet most riders only use it for on road touring or commuting (it's a great bike for that but a little overkill in my opinion. Grest if you can afford it). People used to tell me I was crazy to take my bike to the places I did and risk wrecking it (450 lb bike worth $25K). I had my fun, wrecked my bike and found a couple other "crazy" riders to ride with.

I still haven't taken the Discovery 4 anywhere beyond a rocky trail or in the sand on our day trips to the beach. When I did it worked great! I really enjoy the blend of luxury and capability (off road, in sand, towing capacity, etc) the truck offers.

Most of all I enjoy the discussions in this forum and the knowledge shared.
 

CaptainSpalding

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Even if it's just fire roads, I still get stoked to be away from the City. It just kills me to see such a capable vehicle being used as a Honda Element. I'm coming from a history of Jeeps and fullsized with Dana 60's and lockers. These are amazing vehicles and I just get bummed out that the LRX and the proposed watered down D90 are faint images of what the Land Rover Marque used to be. The Camel Trophy is what tugged at my heart to ditch slopping through mud holes and move to the next level of Expeditions and Overlanding - destinations of substance. I don't expect owners to bash their rigs, stripe their paint or dent their panels. If 95% of the owners stay on road, we'll be left with Luxo-rigs and endless elctro-wizardry to keep the chihuahua warm and comfy. Just my opinion and we all know the saying. I wasn't ******** or whining. I just feel that this and every other forum is suffering from a lack of adventurous owners who are unwilling to explore due to the price tag. This is a shame.
I have a wheeling background as well, but LR isn't about wheeling any more. It's about country picnics and ski lodges. There's no Camel Trophy now. When was the last time you saw a Land Rover commercial that showed the truck off road? More likely the commercial showed a well-to-do couple handing it off to a valet in front of a trendy night spot, or zipping by on the Autobahn. Go to the Land Rover website. You'll see a photo of the Evoque (how did we ever get from "Defender" to "Evoque"?) The Evoque is cruising down down a beautiful flat stretch of beach — wait a minute. It's not on the beach. They've Photoshopped a road in under it. Land Rover chose to put a road under their off-road vehicle. That, my brother, says it all.

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Land Rover doesn't want you and me. They don't build trucks for us and they are not marketing to us. They don't make mission critical vehicles anymore. It breaks my heart. I'm not sure I even want to see the DC100 Defender. Im' not sure I could take it. Now you've got me all angsty! :hmpf::wink: (Thats a hmpf on the angsty and a wink that it's your fault. It isn't. I was already angsty.)
 
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