Houm_WA
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I just noticed that you are in Seattle. Who did you take it to?
Transmission Range Change Not Available
- Thread starter GeoRover
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GeoRover
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Biggs Eastside Automotive (Bellevue) - They specialize in Land Rovers, came highly recommended. Tomorrow is the D-Day for me, either its done or its out of there. Will see. Have you used them before?
Houm_WA
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I know the Biggs brothers; they are good people. They put my RS Sliders on for me but I have not used them for mechanical work because I'm also buddies with the Service Manager at LR Seattle.
GeoRover
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I was told that the car will be ready today. Will post details on work done on it and costs involved. Stay tuned...
GeoRover
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Resolved
And the VERDICT:
The car is back. And the biggest culprit was Transfer case ECU. All systems go after that was replaced and re-programmed.
And yes you have guessed it, the cause was the negative battery terminal corrosion that damaged the area and the TBox ECU. There were couple of minor issues too but not related. They got fixed too. Also an actuator was replaced too.
The mechanic had suspected something else, I was going with the ECU to begin with which ended up being the problem. Thanks to the forum peeps.
This shop is great, they also fixed and corrected minor things here and there and didn't even charge for it. Recommend if in Seattle area.
And the VERDICT:
The car is back. And the biggest culprit was Transfer case ECU. All systems go after that was replaced and re-programmed.
And yes you have guessed it, the cause was the negative battery terminal corrosion that damaged the area and the TBox ECU. There were couple of minor issues too but not related. They got fixed too. Also an actuator was replaced too.
The mechanic had suspected something else, I was going with the ECU to begin with which ended up being the problem. Thanks to the forum peeps.
This shop is great, they also fixed and corrected minor things here and there and didn't even charge for it. Recommend if in Seattle area.
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How does the corrosion on the negative terminal make the leap to t-case ECU? I realize that corrosion is like cancer and will continue to spread until all affected parts have been completely cleaned or replaced. However, doesn't the corrosion spread via contact only? The reason I ask is because the negative terminal issue seems to be a problem for many of the people on this forum...
GeoRover
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I actually don't know the answer to how it gets there, but apparently it makes its way there somehow. The severely damaged battery on the negative terminal when removed showed signs of white powdery residue all the way to its base and surroundings and who knows where else?
My understanding is that the ECUs are located right in that general area and corrosion probably makes a good suspect for the cause and faults related to the box.
Having said that, and after some research I found that this is not just an LR3 problem, this is a problem with most car makes and models, computers and Radio Towers etc; and the CAUSE is:
Dissimilar Metals and Humidity (Moisture)
What really means here is that the LR3 and other automakers are not satisfying this engineering requirement to avoid corrosion.
ENGINEERING EXCERPT #1:
"Quality engineering and design requires an understanding of material compatibility. Galvanic corrosion (some times called dissimilar metal corrosion) is the process by which the materials in contact with each other oxidizes or corrodes. There are three conditions that must exist for galvanic corrosion to occur. First there must be two electrochemically dissimilar metals present. Second, there must be an electrically conductive path between the two metals. And third, there must be a conductive path for the metal ions to move from the more anodic metal to the more cathodic metal. If any one of these three conditions does not exist, galvanic corrosion will not occur. Often when design requires that dissimilar metals come in contact, the galvanic compatibility is managed by finishes and plating. The finishing and plating selected facilitate the dissimilar materials being in contact and protect the base materials from corrosion.
For harsh environments, such as outdoors, high humidity, and salt environments fall into this category. Typically there should be not more than 0.15 V difference in the "Anodic Index". For example; gold silver would have a difference of 0.15V being acceptable.
For normal environments, such as storage in warehouses or non-temperature and humidity controlled environments. Typically there should not be more than 0.25 V difference in the "Anodic Index".
For controlled environments, such that are temperature and humidity controlled, 0.50 V can be tolerated. Caution should be maintained when deciding for this application as humidity and temperature do vary from regions"
Source: http://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm
For harsh environments, such as outdoors, high humidity, and salt environments fall into this category. Typically there should be not more than 0.15 V difference in the "Anodic Index". For example; gold silver would have a difference of 0.15V being acceptable.
For normal environments, such as storage in warehouses or non-temperature and humidity controlled environments. Typically there should not be more than 0.25 V difference in the "Anodic Index".
For controlled environments, such that are temperature and humidity controlled, 0.50 V can be tolerated. Caution should be maintained when deciding for this application as humidity and temperature do vary from regions"
Source: http://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm
ENGINEERING EXCERPT #2:
What is Dissimilar Metal Corrosion?
Dissimilar metal corrosion is another way to define what is normally defined as Galvanic Corrosion or Bimetallic Corrosion.
Galvanic corrosion or Dissimilar metal Corrosion is a localised mechanism by which metals can be preferentially corroded.
This form of corrosion has the potential to attack junctions of metals, or regions where one construction metal is changed to another.
Frequently this condition arises because different metals are more easily fabricated into certain forms; an example might be a door frame manufactured from aluminium extrusions (aluminium extrudes extremely well into architectural sections), but with a door handle fabricated from stainless steel tube to exploit its higher strength and abrasion resistance.
Dissimilar metal corrosion is well known to most designers, specifiers and fabricators, but often the only rule in force is "don't mix metals".
Source: http://www.corrosionist.com/dissimilar_metal_corrosion.htm
Dissimilar metal corrosion is another way to define what is normally defined as Galvanic Corrosion or Bimetallic Corrosion.
Galvanic corrosion or Dissimilar metal Corrosion is a localised mechanism by which metals can be preferentially corroded.
This form of corrosion has the potential to attack junctions of metals, or regions where one construction metal is changed to another.
Frequently this condition arises because different metals are more easily fabricated into certain forms; an example might be a door frame manufactured from aluminium extrusions (aluminium extrudes extremely well into architectural sections), but with a door handle fabricated from stainless steel tube to exploit its higher strength and abrasion resistance.
Dissimilar metal corrosion is well known to most designers, specifiers and fabricators, but often the only rule in force is "don't mix metals".
Source: http://www.corrosionist.com/dissimilar_metal_corrosion.htm
PREVENTION:
Corrosion Prevention
THE REAL SOLUTION:
After reading and research I am convinced that the TRUE solution lies in the DISSIMILAR METAL fix. I think if that is addressed then the problem will go away forever. Saw another YOUTUBE video about that and one comment stands out verifying the above:
The advantages of Gator Loc Connectors is that they will never corrode! With traditional battery connectors, including screw in terminals, there is the involvement of dissimilar metals,which over time will corrode (depending on environment) without consistent maintenance. In fact, I've seen screw in terminals (side-post type) corrode to a point where the engine would not turn over.
Because side-post terminals can hide real problems that can develop out of sight
Because side-post terminals can hide real problems that can develop out of sight
Corrosion Free Battery Connectors
MY CONCLUSION:
Negative Terminal Corrosion is not related to any gases, acid leaks or such. It's purely an electrochemical process occuring between dissimilar metals under favorble (but undesirable) environments discussed in the first engineering article and re-iterated elsewhere in various forms.
Now the question is, are ECU contacts having the same problems? Maybe unrelated to the Negative Battery Terminal Corrosion but possibly the same phenomenon being experienced independent of battery? I have seen this in computers too, so my hypothesis is: "same phenomenon on ECU contacts but possibly unrelatd to terminal corrosion".
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Brad Ramsey
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Battery leakage caused TC ECU corrosion/failure
I replaced the battery on my 06 LR3 this week. The previous battery change (done at a repair shop) had mistakenly pinched the battery drain tube so that it had popped off from the battery housing under pressure. As the battery began to fail the fumes and acid had made its way to the transfer case ECU, located on the firewall behind the battery.
I began to get a flurry of trouble codes and dash lights as the battery lost voltage. The LR3 lowered the suspension, placed itself in low range, and would not allow any changes. I initially changed the battery but the "special programs not available" message continued. Occasionally the parking brake would remain engaged and the low range light would blink. That pretty much renders the vehicle unusable.
I then pulled the new battery again and inspected the TC ECU. The contacts inside the connector were badly corroded. I removed the ECU and cleaned the contacts with electrical cleaning fluid and a soft wire brush. There were bad spots that required a jeweler's screw driver to scrape between the contact rows.
That did the trick.
Some detail:
The TC ECU is behind a plastic cover. Once the battery is removed you will see a wire bundle with a connector that is held in place by a plastic clip. Pull firmly on the connector and the clip will pull out. Now that the bundle is out of the way the cover can be removed. There are two plastic clips on the cover, one on each side. Once you have released those the top of the cover will tilt out toward the front of the vehicle, held in place by tabs at the bottom. The rubber boots protecting the wire bundles at the top remain in place and will slide away from the cover.
Once the cover has been removed, the TC ECU is exposed. It is held in place with plastic retainers at the top. Gently pry those up and the ECU will also tilt out and can be pulled away from the mount. The three plugs can now be easily removed and the ECU can be inspected and cleaned.
One last important note. If you notice moisture in the area (on wires, connectors, etc) and suspect that it is from the battery it must be cleaned. Otherwise the acid will creep and corrode the parts that you cleaned as well as any others in the area.
I replaced the battery on my 06 LR3 this week. The previous battery change (done at a repair shop) had mistakenly pinched the battery drain tube so that it had popped off from the battery housing under pressure. As the battery began to fail the fumes and acid had made its way to the transfer case ECU, located on the firewall behind the battery.
I began to get a flurry of trouble codes and dash lights as the battery lost voltage. The LR3 lowered the suspension, placed itself in low range, and would not allow any changes. I initially changed the battery but the "special programs not available" message continued. Occasionally the parking brake would remain engaged and the low range light would blink. That pretty much renders the vehicle unusable.
I then pulled the new battery again and inspected the TC ECU. The contacts inside the connector were badly corroded. I removed the ECU and cleaned the contacts with electrical cleaning fluid and a soft wire brush. There were bad spots that required a jeweler's screw driver to scrape between the contact rows.
That did the trick.
Some detail:
The TC ECU is behind a plastic cover. Once the battery is removed you will see a wire bundle with a connector that is held in place by a plastic clip. Pull firmly on the connector and the clip will pull out. Now that the bundle is out of the way the cover can be removed. There are two plastic clips on the cover, one on each side. Once you have released those the top of the cover will tilt out toward the front of the vehicle, held in place by tabs at the bottom. The rubber boots protecting the wire bundles at the top remain in place and will slide away from the cover.
Once the cover has been removed, the TC ECU is exposed. It is held in place with plastic retainers at the top. Gently pry those up and the ECU will also tilt out and can be pulled away from the mount. The three plugs can now be easily removed and the ECU can be inspected and cleaned.
One last important note. If you notice moisture in the area (on wires, connectors, etc) and suspect that it is from the battery it must be cleaned. Otherwise the acid will creep and corrode the parts that you cleaned as well as any others in the area.
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