Not Starting Again

[RoverChic]

You guessed..It more problems. Not to worry folks I am looking for a Jeep and just got back from the car lots..hopefully no more LR drama after this (crossed fingers) ..I cant trade the thing in, if it wont start right?
Sergei I need your help here. Remember when you talked about the ignition module? Well, I believe that is where my problems lies? The Rover will not start when really hot. I have replaced the fuel pump/fuel filter/new spark plugs (basics have been covered Mike). I believe their is a problem electrically? Whether it be in the ignition module ,TPS, or the something is not getting enough spark to the spark plugs? This has never happened when the rover is cold (i.e. sitting overnight), this only happens during heat. That is why this start stop problem I believe is electrical?
Symptoms = Rover turns over, will start shake shiver and die ~ This same scenario will happen about 5 times before either I A) Give up or B) give it gas ..Usually it starts. I believe it is a sensor? Any help as always is appreciated!
TIA, Melissa

 

[Sergei]

Well you can try to swap coil out - its a wee bit cheaper than module thingy. I think new performance one from motorcarsltd is about 47$. You also can try to check contacts on coil (disconnect battery first and do it in something like resin gloves - dont want to get serious electricity over hand-earth path). Clean, make sure they are nice (mine were pretty rotten). Ignition module, you can try to get used one - poke Will Tillery for that, he normally has lots of parts that no one normally thinking about, till it bites.. And his prices are usually very good for used stuff. Can in fact get whole thing - module + coil from him.

Another potential resolution (but i tried it and it didnt work) according to atlantic british is fuel temp sensor. When getting too hot it cuts off feed. But i tried to swap mine for giggles with other folk (seeing that my new ordered one just been lost by DHL) and it apparently been not quite resolved.

Ignition however, after i put energy pack on - did get solved, so i think its module and coil that getting toast. They aging and cant send signals as good as new ones.

There has been some discussion on motorcars forums over similar symptoms, and thats how i got initial idea.

Theory behind issue is next:

with age contacts and coils becoming more and more corroded, specially in environment where agressive elements presented and where heat is involved (heat increases chemical reaction activity)
as things becoming corroded their conductivity (ability to transfer electrical signals) lowering. (hence need to clean up them terminals on battery, replacing stupid ingition wires)

so running of truck, and specially statups are becoming compromised

to worsen that, when things are under serious heat - they expanding. So contacts can become literally disconnected when its getting too hot, and then loosely connected when cooling down (i had once lovely lamp at home, that was turning itself off after working for 15 mins. And then turning on again, if you let it cool. Was cool way to freak out new guests)

So in a word - i'd try to find used ignition module and coil and stick them in. If you not one of OK Rover owners who ****** at CarCannibal - give him shout, though his prices seems to be raver high, and all those debates around reputation arent adding to that.. W.Tillery is very reputable dude, i got few things from him and many other people on Dweb singing praises to him. Also you can always drop email to whoever parting rovers - there isnt much people considering swapping ignition (it just sort of one of last things, thinking conventionally ), you getting to when having running problems)

I still would steer away from Jeep - but thats just me. I have huge dislike to them after having issues with brand new one for 2 years and then discovering more issues when it nearly got me dead in snow storm on mountain road.

 

[Sergei]

I just thought up of one way to look at it. How are you plugs? Unsufficient power output to those will make petrol to burn bad, and get spark fouled more..

On other hand i can totally picture you on some pink Rubicon...
(we got purple one going to town from time to time. May be thats why)

Geez. That was long post ..

PS: folkz, if someone to poke me for writng style - feels free Sometime i am starting to write in english as if would write in russian.. Not very close they are

 

[RoverChic]

NOBODY EVER MAKE FUN OF YOU SERG!!!! OR I WILL COME AFTER THEM WITH A SEMI-AUTO and my POS LR ..ha ha!!

I called Mike too.. It was another icky Rover day! Just sorta embarrasing when you are riding around in the big nice SUV and the thing will not start!! Mike thinks it is the Ignition Coil ( Ignition Coil ~ Coil Block This coil has 8 spark plug wire/lead connect.) Which runs about 660.00? ....I do now know that it is electrical..Something with the electrical system. Oh Henry, when is this going to end??

I am printing off what you posted Serg.. Thank you !! You help so much!! Mike and you are such an ASSET to Land Rover owners!!

 

[RoverChic]

Plugs looked good Serg..Pulled a few out today..No white powder or anything. What should I be looking for on the spark plug ?? My uncle said to carry an extra spark plug around w/ me and when it will not start try and put the new one in or something?? Yeah maybe I should just get a 2004 D2. That way it will have the warranty and the CDL!!

I am not mad per se @ Car Cannibal but I too had a bad experience with Ryan R. I will not go back ..But he is considered to be a Rover acquaintance. That is a whole other issue that we could go onto but I will not...

 

[Sergei]

Naah

Well bugger me.. I totally forgot they swapped it all out to be distributorless..
So yours is coilpack.. Damn.

Well good news.. http://catservices.wrencheadpro.com/SmartPages/partinfo/ACD/C518.gif

you can get it for 110.48 (yes i am cheap bastard)

Just spotted you got plugs out. Well if they arent very dirty (they should be just butt ugly soaking in black liquid, i know b/c mines were at some point ) then its probably not constant but intermenient problem somewhere. If you got anyone with same distributorless Disco as yours and you can convince them to lend you their coil thingy for that day or few hours - i'd try that. If not - i sppse it can be somewhat measured with tools, but unfortunately its LR that got those tools And we dont want to get you to dealership for that.

Personally i'd just swap coil. Then i'd took coolant off, flush system, add anti-leak additive and put new one in.. (or just put new anti-leak additive in)

 

[RoverChic]

WOW THAT IS GREAT !!!!! 110.00?? WAHOO!!! AC DELCO?? That link just shows the picture !!! Do you think it is the coil pack my uncle kept saying somehing about the Throttle Sensor? Not giving it enough gas ??

 

[Sergei]

Throttle sensor is little bugger that sits and measuring (well sort of) angle of throttle plate. It can indeed cause grief with things, but i still dont believe in them failing. While its all sounds cool its nothing more than potentiometer. And i never really seen any of those to fail in my entire life - and those are what used in old TVs and stuff..

But i keep hearing about them failing on different vehicles - so there must be some truth in it. Jeeps in fact seems to be infamous for those (i had leaking cylinders in 8 months after purchase, and i kept thinking its TPS - so i had serious excursion about it with techy dude in dealership)

(autoparts2go.com is where coil is to be found )

 

[RoverChic]

"not constant but intermittent problem somewhere" You hit the nail on the head !! Some times it happens sometimes it does not...I added some petroleum jelly to the battery connectors, I also changed the oil tonight...Added some grease to the swivel ball joints..I have pampered this Rover more than any other car .. "potentiometer "~ That was the same word Unlce Glen used tonight about the TPS.... I need to be a LR TECH!

 

[ParrotheadinALB]

Melissa...

I haven't read all the posts relating to your starting problems, but what I have read, reminds me of some problems that I was having. I'm not sure that what I did fixed it, but with the excpetion of a loose battery lead, I've had reliable starts for over 6 months. My symptoms were the exact same, and we tested or replaced batteries, plugs, leads, coils, cap and rotor. Nothing did anything except cause me to go deeper in debt for the beast. It basically took myself, and five airplane mechanics to solve this.

You'll have to pardon my mechanical/technical jargon or lack thereof. Take off the airbox and all the plumbing. Right inside the plenum chamber/ intake mafinold (Silver thing in middle of engine with the 3.9 stamped on it). Right inside where the hose attatches, there is valve (i'll try to take a picture tomorrow). As the engine was cranking, this vavle tried to open but was stuck. It would open when I pressed the gas, but all this did was flood the engine. Well we held this vavle half open with a screwdriver, it fired up, ran like pure **** for a few min then settled down and ran like a champ.

When I got home, I ran a can of Sea Foam through the engine, and sprayed this valve down heavely with the aerosal version deep creep. I used a lint free cloth to clean both sides of the valve after letting this stuff soak in. There was a plethora of carbon build up on the back side, and I think that was what was causing it to stick. I was using a K&N filter, there was a mixed opinion that the oil from the filter might have contributred to it. I wasn't sure what to believe, but I didn't want to go through the stuck in the parking lot for hours routine, so I went back to paper filters and have had not problems.

Give it a look it might work, and worst case your out the 5 minutes that it taked to remive the airbox and hose.

Once again, sorry about the lack of correct terminology, all my mechanical skills envolve the use of language like pointy, shiny, long, short, whatever thingies.


Jason