Defender v Bronco v Wrangler

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ktm525

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I think someone at Land Rover has decided that better braking performance is one of the main things Land Rover should strive for. Maybe it has something to do with the tow rating (although plenty of vehicles with equal tow ratings are able to run smaller wheels).

Because the brakes are just getting bigger and bigger while the vehicles are getting lighter.

Considering 99% of LR products never touch the dirt the people in the know are not wrong.
 

Shaggy

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The censoring on this forum is out of control lol

Going back to read old threads about brake bleeding and transmission fluid flushes is a bad joke, half the paragraph blanked out so you get to guess what the original author meant..

I know you have already, but if anyone sees words that do not need censoring, please let me know what those words are and I will remove them. I have been going through the censored words list and removing alot, but I know I will miss some.
 

greiswig

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I know you have already, but if anyone sees words that do not need censoring, please let me know what those words are and I will remove them. I have been going through the censored words list and removing alot, but I know I will miss some.
Problem is that usually it's only the poster who knows what the word actually was. But thank you!
 

m_lars

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They had bought one with the locker and the 18" tires and that was the one that was bought back. This version was essentially "given" to them in exchange (they cover it in other videos), and I'm guessing no nearby dealer had one with the locker to give them. They reviewed the one they were given, considering that's what Land Rover gave them to review. Their Defender review consisted of several videos in a series where they chronicle everything over around a year. The video that this thread concerns was one of the last videos in the series.



So wait. What's this thread about then? People are comparing them, understanding there will be fundamental differences.



Anything hanging down low on a Rubicon lifts up when a tire is on an obstacle. The other things that hang "low" are only low relative to the Wrangler and not relative to virtually any other trail vehicle.



Caliper Hangers + Rotors + 18" wheels + tires costs more than a 2" lift and 35" tires on the Jeep, and costs way more than just throwing 35" tires on a stock Jeep.

I've thrown 4 coils and 4 shocks on a solid axle vehicle in a few hours. If you have a vehicle lift, I bet it could be done in around an hour on a new vehicle with no seized hardware.
I mean, Ok. Sounds like you are one of the guys that thinks the defender is a mall crawler that doesn’t deserve the name and I disagree. It seems like you’re being a little disingenuous with your arguments.



I’m aware of at least some of the problems they had with their original defender. I’m also going off what they said in THIS video when they said they couldn’t get one with a locker. My point in saying that is it appears it’s harder to get a top spec defender than a top spec Bronco or Jeep. Maybe that’s incorrect, but that was my take away.

I thought I was comparing and contrasting, I’m not sure what you think I’ve been doing. I just feel like a comparison should be as apples to apples as possible and preferably not biased against anyone.

My point about the ground clearance is that if the jeep went over that first obstacle before the defender, they would have had to stack rocks just as they did for the defender. Stock vs stock the defender is no worse off than the rubicon (actually better in my view), yet they make the defender look helpless.

Are you REALLY trying to tell me a lift and bigger tires on a Jeep is easier/faster than swapping 18” wheels to a defender? Let’s just throw out the time and cost of the wheels because it would be the same in either scenario. If you can throw on a complete lift in an hour, I can remove and replace the caliper hangers and rotors (6 bolts) in 15 minutes.

Land Rover should have made 18” wheels available on all models, but come on. It’s easier to put on a lift than mod the brakes to fit 18’s?
 

m_lars

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From what I remember, Defenders used to be targeted at a market that went offroad quite a bit, and I've seen D90's with large tires on hard trails in Moab and the Rubicon doing quite well with relatively few modifications.

There are strengths and weaknesses to both live axles and independent suspensions. It often just involves picking a different line. If I were designing mainly for comfort, I'd probably use independent suspension. If I were designing purely for offroad performance, I'd probably choose live portal axles with torque tubes.

My main point about the brakes, though, is that requiring the vehicle to have 19-20" wheels because of the brakes reduces your sidewall height by 1-1.5" already fpr the same tire diameter compared to what the Defender used to offer. That's a big difference when offroading where you want to take advantage of sidewall flex and lower tire pressures. If I could get the same braking performance on 16" wheels on my LR4, I'd be going smaller than the 18" Compomotive wheels I already have.
And I think you could do the same trails as that 90 you spoke of with the new defender on an 18/33” combo. By nearly every metric the new defender is superior to the old. I think they will and are shocking people at how capable they are when set up right. One can certainly make a case that Land Rover should have made them closer to ready to go from the factory.
 

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