LR4 5.0 Chain Guides actual problem?

[Ric in Richmond]

Did it sound better?

Very much so. It still has a mechanical sound (maybe HPFP?) to it but no longer sloppy.

Ratchets on both tensioners completely shot. Compressed by finger pressure immediately. Holes machined in back of tensioner blades.

 

[BeemerNut]

Tapping sounds is the DI and/or fuel pump. No worries."

Please explain how the electric fuel pump mounted inside the fuel tank submerged in gasoline can produce "tapping sounds".
One can barely hear the fuel pump hum for a couple seconds before startup under silent conditions.

"You have a long list of things that can go BOOM on this rig (air susp, compressor, LCA front, LCA rear, transmission ..diffs). Chasing problems will not be good on the wallet.

So very true spoken words the "long list" especially the "go BOOM" part.
Now your introducing higher worry into those LR4 owners that are "worrywarts" by nature.

Anything mechanical that is making noise is related to wear issues period.
With the 5 litre especially at cold dry start clanking noises until oil pressure is developed in the engine as well before applying pressure to the chain guide slippers.
This sounds like a perfect example of an engine needing a "Pre-Oiler" and applied before starting it.
Another item mentioned, how the vehicle is used and oil changes by mileage differences.
Short start and stop miles driven in town in rather cold environments no matter the quality of oil will add excessive condensation, sludge, soot,carbon and acids into the oil vs an engine driven on the highways at way higher miles between oil changes. Must add higher freeway mileage engine oil will come out much cleaner as well have way less metallic particles from bearing babbitt, aluminum (excluding timing chain eating engine block particles) piston as well cylinder bore iron wear.

Another reply a "FORD engine", can't blame Ford for manufacturing the 5 litre LR engine as they (Ford) are following LR's engineer's and bean counters design and materials to the exact specs and materials used in their LR engines.

The 5 litre Coyote engine is a completely different engine and design with several allready gone over 100 to 150K trouble free timing chain and chain guide issues verse what LR's are experiencing as their miles add up.
Also the Coyote powered Mustang owners are running their engines way more aggressively with manual transmissions vs LR4's chugging around with automatic transmissions holding the rpm's down low.

Personal opinion one reply above mentioned they (LR) reinstalled or kept the old timing chain with new guides or slippers.
Good news that means the link plates are polished down vs a new chain slightly wearing into the chain guides or slippers.
Bad thing if the used chain has become worn and stretched in length causing larger chain deflection or arc against each chain guide.
Installing used, at what percentage is the used chain vs new in life left in that used chain, now that's the question i'd want answered.
Cheaper and faster with less man hrs replacing the slippers only again saving LR money.
JMO's.....~~=o&o>.....

 

[Ric in Richmond]

Personal opinion one reply above mentioned they (LR) reinstalled or kept the old timing chain with new guides or slippers.
Good news that means the link plates are polished down vs a new chain slightly wearing into the chain guides or slippers.
Bad thing if the used chain has become worn and stretched in length causing larger chain deflection or arc against each chain guide.
Installing used, at what percentage is the used chain vs new in life left in that used chain, now that's the question i'd want answered.
Cheaper and faster with less man hrs replacing the slippers only again saving LR money.
JMO's.....~~=o&o>.....

Most manuals spec pin to pin length on a chain so you can measure stretch. Anyone know if LR specs a number for timing chains?

Mine only had guides and tensioners done.

 

[BeemerNut]

Most manuals spec pin to pin length on a chain so you can measure stretch. Anyone know if LR specs a number for timing chains?

Mine only had guides and tensioners done.

To be accurate chains should be washed clean with all oil removed, stretched out straight making note the number of links and its length. Next compress the chain making note the length difference with the same number of links usually a set standard of links when measuring chains to determine the amount of chain wear and life left. Example, replacing motorcycle final drive sprockets but not the worn and stretched chain shortens the life of new sprockets. Same problem applies installing a new chain on worn sprockets this time shortening the chain's life. Rather much harsher chain environment on motorcycles.
Protecting Land Rover's profit margin by not replacing the chains plus the extra man hours labor saved on engines still under warranty amounts to a rather large amount of money Land Rover saves increasing their profits.
Comer back after your warranty has expired then I bet Land Rover would be replacing all the slippers, chains and sprockets then gladly give you a big labor and parts bill.....~~=o&o>.....

 

[ryanjl]

My timing chain and guides were just replaced under my CPO warranty. Just in time, too, as my warranty expires at the end of this year.

Here's the depressing part. I bought my LR4 at around 42k miles, and since then I've religiously changed the oil every 7,000 miles or less.

About a year ago I brought it in to the same dealership with what I thought was timing chain noise, but I was told everything seemed ok. This summer, it ran pretty well--almost more quiet than ever. Once the weather turned cold again, however, it make a little bit of noise at startup in the morning. I brought it in before my warranty expired as sort of a last ditch appeal to get the work done, but, to be honest, if they told me it was normal I probably wouldn't have balked too much.

I looked at the parts they removed (I originally wanted to keep them, but I guess the CPO warranty means they have to send them back in to Land Rover). The guides had worn in a few millimeters where the tensioners' pistons hit them. The mechanic who did the work told me that the guides weren't even pushing on the chain anymore, and the timing chain had stretched more than an inch when compared with a new one. He also said that the timing chain was close to coming in contact with the oil jets meant to spray engine oil on the chain (the jets are the part in the top-center of the parts photo on this page: https://www.roverparts.com/Parts/TCK5030). He said he had performed the job on other vehicles where the chain had gotten so worn that it came into contact with that part and worn a great deal of it away.

I scored because of my CPO. Lots of new parts, such as new valve covers which I guess were only $10 more than buying new valve cover gaskets. New timing chain cover. Etc. (Also got a new water pump and new radiator, which I guess both had sprung very small leaks).

But this is scary for anyone outside of a warranty. I thought I was doing everything I could to prevent this from happening, and it wasn't enough.

 

[Ric in Richmond]

It is a design flaw and should be recalled.

Between the stupid "lets make this steel push on this aluminum" and the pistons that fail and retract instead of extending and ratcheting out and STAYING extended.

And even if you haven't had it happen it has affected you. Values are down because of it...I know I bought mine for way less due to the issue...and paid for it later.

That being said...still love this truck.

 

[ryanjl]

Yeah, now that mine is fixed, I can see me owning this LR4 for years to come. Now that it's got the superior-design timing chain guides, there's not a whole lot of other common issues that aren't relatively easy fixes, so long as my transmission doesn't take a dump or something.

 

[armozo]

I’m not sure if my 2010 LR4 and 2011 L322 SC qualify for the Law Suit the link points too. I wonder if it extends its reach to 2010.

I’ve been quoted $4600 for the job in my l322.


http://websterbook.com/timing-chain-class-action-filed-against-jaguar-and-land-rover/

 

[ttforcefed]

My timing chain and guides were just replaced under my CPO warranty. Just in time, too, as my warranty expires at the end of this year.

Here's the depressing part. I bought my LR4 at around 42k miles, and since then I've religiously changed the oil every 7,000 miles or less.

About a year ago I brought it in to the same dealership with what I thought was timing chain noise, but I was told everything seemed ok. This summer, it ran pretty well--almost more quiet than ever. Once the weather turned cold again, however, it make a little bit of noise at startup in the morning. I brought it in before my warranty expired as sort of a last ditch appeal to get the work done, but, to be honest, if they told me it was normal I probably wouldn't have balked too much.

I looked at the parts they removed (I originally wanted to keep them, but I guess the CPO warranty means they have to send them back in to Land Rover). The guides had worn in a few millimeters where the tensioners' pistons hit them. The mechanic who did the work told me that the guides weren't even pushing on the chain anymore, and the timing chain had stretched more than an inch when compared with a new one. He also said that the timing chain was close to coming in contact with the oil jets meant to spray engine oil on the chain (the jets are the part in the top-center of the parts photo on this page: https://www.roverparts.com/Parts/TCK5030). He said he had performed the job on other vehicles where the chain had gotten so worn that it came into contact with that part and worn a great deal of it away.

I scored because of my CPO. Lots of new parts, such as new valve covers which I guess were only $10 more than buying new valve cover gaskets. New timing chain cover. Etc. (Also got a new water pump and new radiator, which I guess both had sprung very small leaks).

But this is scary for anyone outside of a warranty. I thought I was doing everything I could to prevent this from happening, and it wasn't enough.

What year is urs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cperez]

Yeah, now that mine is fixed, I can see me owning this LR4 for years to come. Now that it's got the superior-design timing chain guides...

Since we're having a bubble-bursting moment here, I was talking to one of my indy mechanics this past week after he replaced my water pump. I said well at least I have a late year 2013 with the improved timing chain guides.

Can you tell where this is going?

He just smiled and shook his head ruefully. Told me that he's replaced plenty of 2013 MY "improved" timing chains. He sees them failing at around 100K-ish miles. Yes this is anecdotal (n=1). He did say it made sense to keep up the frequent oil changes but said it wasn't a silver bullet. This supports your experience, @ryanjl. Damn.