HDC on ice

[Houm_WA]

Up here in the PAC NW we got a light snowfall, but then it all froze over and turned to ice. In a hilly area, I had an incident in which I got very sideways (I'd say did close to a 180) going down an extremely icy hill. I did have an issue with gear selection (there was a car behind me and I rushed it instead of keeping the Rover in 1st & 4-Lo) but overall I was puzzled over why it struggled.

Today I faced the same hill. While not quite as icy 18 hours later, it was still pretty bad. This time I remained in 1st gear and did NOT engage HDC. The LR3 crept down as expected. Near the bottom of the hill I felt a little bit of a slide but no biggie. For fun I punched the HDC button and guess what....the LR3 began sliding sideways.

My conclusion: HDC is great for steep slippery descents in loose dirt, rocks, gravel, mud, snow, sand. .....but not good for ice. I felt like on a surface that slick, ANY use of the brake induced a slide.

Anyone else with similar experiences?

 

[roverdawg]

Up here in the PAC NW we got a light snowfall, but then it all froze over and turned to ice. In a hilly area, I had an incident in which I got very sideways (I'd say did close to a 180) going down an extremely icy hill. I did have an issue with gear selection (there was a car behind me and I rushed it instead of keeping the Rover in 1st & 4-Lo) but overall I was puzzled over why it struggled.

Today I faced the same hill. While not quite as icy 18 hours later, it was still pretty bad. This time I remained in 1st gear and did NOT engage HDC. The LR3 crept down as expected. Near the bottom of the hill I felt a little bit of a slide but no biggie. For fun I punched the HDC button and guess what....the LR3 began sliding sideways.

My conclusion: HDC is great for steep slippery descents in loose dirt, rocks, gravel, mud, snow, sand. .....but not good for ice. I felt like on a surface that slick, ANY use of the brake induced a slide.

Anyone else with similar experiences?

Houm,

I faced a similar situation on Queen Anne Hill in Seattle. I don't think we rec'd as much snow as you did on the eastside but nevertheless what did fall tuned into ice on the side streets here last night. I found that HDC worked flawlessly until I needed to brake at the bottom of the hills then the ABS would kick in and I would still slide (almost out into the intersections). I finally figured out that if I used HDC to walk down and then used the cruise control - button to reduce the speed to near zero, I could stop much better and w/o inducing a slide. Never got the rear to slide sideways 'cept when I tried to take a corner a lil' too fast in the snow. Truly impressed even with the gawd awful Goodyear HPs.

Go Hawks!

 

[LR3_WA]

Hi Guys - I'm on the east side of the pond (lake washington) with about 5" of snow.

I've got the truck a little sideways by my own doing (punching it).

I've experienced a braking issue when I had the 'traction control' in the SNOW mode - damn truck would not stop. I found the anti-lock brakes were over sensitive and would not allow the truck to stop. So with this snow/ice I've switched it to SAND with much better success in stopping and starting even with my different tires (Scorpions). But in a parking lot I tried out the Scorpions in SNOW mode and still had the same problem of the truck not stopping on a flat surface.

I haven't tried the SNOW mode on a hill as it scared the cr@p out of me last year not being able to stop!

Not sure if you two had it out of NORM when in HDC. Or if HDC causes the braking system to work different (ie - ups the sensitivity of the anti-lock?).

 

[LR3_WA]

Oooops. I shouldn't assume "guys".

Replace "guys" with "guys/ladies"

 

[roverdawg]

I've found that manually downshifting in snow mode (with the hdc off) is enough to keep me under control on a hill. However, if it's a steep icy hill I prefer the HDC to be in control and to control the speed/braking by using the + and - cruise control buttons on the steering wheel. Now, who wants to take one for the team and try an extremely steep, icy hill with cars parked on both sides? I don't have that degree of confidence yet. Was very impressed with the LR3's ability to go UP a steep, icy hill and it was especially gratifying to go around a Jeep Commander that was struggling! =)

 

[toddjb122]

I didn't think HDC was for snow/ice? Thought it was for rock crawling and that sort of thing (but, yes, you can hit it on any mode)

Just curious if we should be using it or not when going down a slick icy paved road. ?

 

[roverdawg]

I didn't think HDC was for snow/ice? Thought it was for rock crawling and that sort of thing (but, yes, you can hit it on any mode)

Just curious if we should be using it or not when going down a slick icy paved road. ?

I'd save it for the extra steep hills only. Downshifting seems to work well as long as the hill isn't too steep. Here's Land Rover's "10 Tips for Winter Driving":
Ten tips from Land Rover to help enjoy safe winter motoring:

1. Use the highest practical gear – this limits the amount of torque and will help to prevent wheel spin

2. Use HDC (Hill Descent Control) and first gear to provide the maximum control down hills

3. Clear ice and snow from all windows and lights – even the bonnet and roof – before driving

4. Use all controls (steering, brakes, throttle etc) gently to try and prevent upsetting the vehicle and causing loss of control

5. Leave extra distance between your vehicle and the vehicle in front – it takes longer to stop in adverse conditions

6. If your vehicle skids on an icy road, take your foot off the brake, step on the clutch or change to neutral and steer into the direction of the skid

7. Before setting out on a journey in bad conditions, check the following:

a. Anti-freeze

b. Wipers and windscreen washer fluid

c. Thermostat

d. Lights

e. Hazard lights

f. Defroster

g. Oil level

8. Ensure you have enough fuel – petrol stations may be shut

9. If planning a long journey or venturing off-road, ensure you have a blanket, food and water in case of emergency

10. Go slow – drive according to the conditions and be extra vigilant

 

[Houm_WA]

So, I think playing with these controls and settings is fun and a good thing to do....but there is no "set and forget" mode. We still need to pay attention to how the vehicle best responds and drive accordingly.

I think that 4-lo is enough on ice and HDC isn't needed. I don't remember if it kicked in automatically in snow (+Lo) or if I turned it on, but either way it was no-good on ice. On any other surface it kicks ass...I learned to love it at the LR Experience Driving school and in other off-road situations, but this was my first time on pure ice and from now on...it's going to be off.

As for the ABS and stopping...I love it ! If you think it won't stop the vehicle, I think you should try to imagine how bad it would be without it ! I think the ABS keeps you moving straight and does a pretty good job (on a flat surface). Remember that "standing on the brake" on any other car is the last thing you'd want to do and would only take you into a ditch. Similarly with DSC, it keeps the LR3 moving straight. So far the ONLY thing I've learned is as mentioned with the HDC. Everything else has been impressive and it's been fun !

I love it...I wish it would dump a shitload of snow so I could have some real fun. Also note that I live in the Greenlake area, not the Eastside. I was up in Edmonds today and yesterday though, which is where I encountered this hill.

Hey, LR3_WA, how do you like those Pirelli's? I'm going to need to replace soon. I have no faith in Goodyear selling the MT/R's in the US anytime soon, so would you recommend the 'Scorps to anyone?

Thanks.

 

[schafari]

I don't think HDC was meant to be used on supper slippery things like ice. It is not smooth. It is awesome while picking one's way down a steep two track or hill, but on ice, I can't imagine using it. I don't think that is what it is for at all.

Also, I wouldn't think putting the truck in low range would help on ice either. Why put it in low on ice? Seems like you would want just the opposite. Isn't the torque greater in low range, thus prompting more wheelspin rather than less? Also, the transition from gear to gear in low range is much more abrupt. That is the last thing that you would want on ice. Sure, low range to perhaps get moving after a huge snow fall or over some deep snow or drift, but I don't see the value on ice?

The key for ice driving is smooth smooth smooth. Low range and HDC is the antithesis of that.

 

[Houm_WA]

Schafari, maybe I wasn't very clear....the Low Range was for going down a very steep, icy hill. Furthermore I was in Command Shift and in 1st gear, so no shifting involved. (and actually, the time I got into trouble not only was HDC engaged but I'd also shifted into 2nd because someone was behind me and I sort of rushed it. I'd have liked to remain in 1st the whole time).

Also, at the LR Driving school and while offroad with a local Rover club, I was in Lo the entire time. That's what they teach....I am not sure the gear-to-gear transition is any different in low....

If I got into serious anything (mud, gravel, sand, snow, grass...whatever) I'm in Lo; it affords the most control of the vehicle.