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Repeatable Vibration Issues

Discussion in 'LR4' started by Michael Gain, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. BeemerNut

    BeemerNut Full Access Member

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    Michael Gain, sounds like you've done a lot of work and parts replacing with frustration being end results sorry to hear.

    Right away mentioning rubber dirveshaft joint brings up a red flag, they are a POS in my opinion vs a true steel cross U-joint. Had issues three times on the 95 D1, first by just removing rear driveshaft for diff seal replacement reinstalling in exact bolt location to center punch markings. Second rubber joint ending up twisting apart, 3rd also twisting apart with vibration issues replacing with a driveshaft with steel U joints. Vibration problem solved 93K miles and counting. Spirited mountain driving with 5 speed and warmed over 4.6 engine hence rubber joint failures.

    With front vibrations issues like out of balance wheels like your describing I spent an extensive amount of time and labor also until finding the problems.
    Made a stand (3" x 3" box tube) with spare front axle stub shaft allowing mounting hubs front and rear. Seals removed, bearings cleaned and oiled only noticed hubs slightly out of balance with one rather way off balance. Balanced four hubs then installed still good used rotors then checking for runout plus disc thickness all around which wasn't an issue being solid rotors.

    Had a vented rotor vehicle that the wife was sent off a highway exit (Calif H. P.) into 15" deep water chilling hot rotors ending up with a couple rotors swelling up with fat sections causing shuttering braking and vibration issues until the pads and caliphers moved back from the rotors. This required a light machine cut all rotors solving this problem.

    Back to rotors now assembled onto now balanced hubs tha were also out of bance hence next balancing rotors with hubs. Problems solved considering hubs and rotors show drilled and ground down locations from factory or from the hub and rotor supplier for Land Rover.

    Red flag thinking as factory new 4.6 LR short block the cranks were not balanced ending up with a slight crank vibration issue which a low rpm shifting automatic would hide vs 5 speed turning higher rpm's. End of 12 month 12K mile warranty yanked out (2,300 mile) 4.6 and had crank balanced to the piston and rod assemblies I already DIY balanced. Turbine smooth engine 20+ years.

    You mentioned banging rotors off with debris broken loose falling out.
    Dirt, mud or rocks picked up off roading also can cause out of balance vibration issues.

    Under hard acceleration an out of balance driveshaft will calm down with vibration issues but more pronounced unloaded like when coasting in neutral.

    As mentioned above, indicate (dial) rotors to see if they spin true after reseated or bolted up to the hubs again plus thickness all around check.

    Mentioned 27 mph and again around 60 mph, thinking primary and secondary driveshaft out of balance vibration zones. Sorry long novel.......~~=o&o>.......
     
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  2. Michael Gain

    Michael Gain Full Access Member

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    I did not get the road force numbers, but I can ask. They did not print anything for me. Thank you so much for your insight!

    Today, I swapped my stock 19" wheels with stock conti tires back on. While doing the fronts, I pulled the lug / hub covers and loosened and re-torqued the axle nuts. Then, I aired the tired to spec and calibrated the suspension.

    The stock wheels did not solve my vibration issue. They actually made the problem worse.

    - starting at 30 mph i still feel vibration but now hear a "rotor-blade" noise. This gets worse up until 60 mph (the max speed I could hit legally).
    - interestingly, the vibration and noise is greatly reduced when applying the brakes and when turning the wheel. Acceleration now does not change the vibration / noise.

    On a separate note, when i parked the truck back in garage, I heard a whirring sound from the passenger-side rear. I could not isolate the noise, but i am guessing that it was the fuel pump for some reason. It continued for about 2.5 to 3 minutes after shut down.

     
  3. Michael Gain

    Michael Gain Full Access Member

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    No worries! I appreciate your in-depth post and your knowledge. Reading your posts always makes me envious of your innovative solutions to car issues. Unfortunately, my garage is not as well stocked as I would like and I could not build some of the better things-- I really should get better at wielding too lol.

    I would love to replace the carrier bearing with a solid version. I do not think the geometry would work. It appears that there needs to be play in that bearing to account for the angle from the transfer case to the rear diff... not sure why it was designed that way.

    The rotors are highly rusted inside the vanes. The rusted iron is what fell off when I banged on them. Based on my last post to gsxr, I think rotors may be my next replacement item...unless I am off base thinking active braking would reduce vibrations caused by the braking system.

    I have brand new, front cv axles sitting on the shelf. It seems like some of my symptoms are pointing towards them.

    So, even if the front driveshaft is tight, and the rear driveshaft only has 500 miles on it, they could be bad?

    Thank you for your help and insight!


     
  4. Troy Angrignon

    Troy Angrignon Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I have an ongoing repeatable completely consistent vibration issue as well (which I think may be coming from my spacers + LR3 wheels + very heavy E-rated Cooper ST Maxx tires but reading this thread makes me want to NOT start going down the rabbithole. I did some research in some Disco 1/2 and LR3 forums as well and this seems to be a long-standing issue, or I guess to be more clear, consistent vibration issues that are hard to troubleshoot (probably from a variety of causes) seem to be very common.


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  5. f1racer328

    f1racer328 Full Access Member

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    I too have a vibration that has slowly crept and appeared on me, along with some drivetrain noise (85k miles)

    Vibration seems to just shake the steering wheel around 60-80 mph. I also get it while braking at around 60-50 mph (Doesn't seem to be rotors)

    I know my car needs LCAs so I'm replacing those within the next few months and will see if that helps the issue.
     
  6. Michael Gain

    Michael Gain Full Access Member

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    The vibration wasn't as bad with the e-rated 18s on there. I think the lighter 19s could not scare the beast and this allowed it to return with a vengeance Tomorrow is another day for tinkering.

    Lol. I hear you on the rabbit hole. I guess I am finding that I am more OCD than I thought.

     
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  7. Michael Gain

    Michael Gain Full Access Member

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    I pray that the LCAs alleviate the problem for you. Chasing the beast sucks....and is proving expensive. Especially, when my land rover Indy can't pinpoint it.

     
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  8. ktm525

    ktm525 Full Access Member

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    Man those latest symptoms really sound like bearings.
     
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  9. BeemerNut

    BeemerNut Full Access Member

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    Had to ask reading you also have wheel spacers. I installed Terrafirma's 30 mm spacers and had instant vibration issues on the 95 D1. Not a clue about D2's, LR3's and anything newer on how the lug nut design is on later LR's.

    Two issues, one the Terrafirma spacers are centered by cone nuts to the hubs, this not an issue centeing the spacers even when having zero contact by the spacers to the hub centric lip.
    Large diameter studs plus large bolt circle D1's taking up stresses vs later smaller bolt pattern and studs.
    The spacer hub centric ring to rim is in five short sections that only bridge across the pockets in the rims where the hub bolts hold the axles hence the hub centric flanges are useless.
    Only thing centering the rims to the spacers are the parallel lug nut bodies that are a loose fit in the rims, this not an issue IF you had the true hub centric lip to center rim to spacer including the spacer which these Terrafirma spacers do not allow. LR forums with members having spacer vibration issues, giving up removing them.

    With mounted wheels with lugs loose the rim rests on the top of the lug nut body. Tighen down then rotate rim 180 degrees then loosen lug nuts, the rim will fall down until resting on the lug nuts again.
    This amount of eccentric amounts to right at 1.97 ounces out of balance of a zero balanced rim and tyre hence vibration problems times four wheels vibrating. At around 78 mph in a tight sweeper things become interesting, door frames rattling a visual thing.

    Installing a set of four steel spare tyre rims with balanced tyres secured by cone nut contactwith original lug nuts there were zero vibration issues running spacers. Huston we have a problem needing correcting. I refuse removing the spacers, like the handling.

    I do not know if I was this or another forum I posted pictures of stainless sleeves made of 0.014" thick shim stock 0.750" wide rolled to a perfect fit circle into the alloy rim bores now having a snug thumb pressure fit with the lug nuts now centering the alloy rims to spacers.
    Bingo, turbine smooth wheels. Alloy D1 rims plus 255/65-16 Michelin's are rather heavy.

    BTW built a stand with LR hub with stub shaft tube assembly. The tube with machined disc insert with 3/4" hardened, tempered and surface ground shaft allowing static balance checking wheels on a motorcycle wheel balancer I made with flanged ball besrings. Must use in a draft free room then able to detect and cause a out of balance condition by removing a metal valve stem cap.

    Dismounting then mounting new tyres and having two different tyre shops with not the proper equipment to properly center alloy LR rims on their machine now in an eccentric orbit. "You have defective rims" told. Bull Schite you idiots.
    Machined 3/8" steel disc with a snug fit to rim's concentric contact area, bored out to 0.002" clearance to the balance machine arbor, same "defective rims" now spin dead true and had a proper balance. By around 3-4 K miles tyres broken in, treads slightly worn now round plus sidewall flex patern established then rechecked on the super accurate static balancer Noticed between 1/10 to under a 1/4 oz. out of balance. Added weight centered between inside and outside beads preventing rocking coupling action. Turbine smooth.

    As ktm525 mentioned wheel bearings. If that loose your LR must handle like a drunk warthog driving down the flat and level correcting all the time?

    Steering box adjusted PROPERLY, by this the "rag joint" and drag link or Pitman arm removed first then input shaft checked for slight preload? Not possible with everything connected causing overtightening the steering box EVERTTIME causing an early death. Condition of Sector shaft bushing or bearing for play?

    I removed the steering dampener on the over D1 20 yesrs ago, zero issues without it but must mention street only. Rock solid steering even at 5,125 rpm's doing a 5th gear speed run.

    Loose wheel berings on the verge of destroying themselves?
    Cleaned and inspected not just tighening down bearing adjustments which should be a rather stable adjustment vs getting loose all the time which is a warning sign of accelerated wear going on. You playing submarine with your LR? I'll shut up now, 1:50 AM , must be up again by 5 AM. No time these days being retarded, I mean retired.....~~=o&o>.......
     
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  10. Troy Angrignon

    Troy Angrignon Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Ha, [mention]BeemerNut [/mention] thanks for all this. I'll screenshot it and review it with my Indy. This is all on a 2013 LR4 FYI.

    For more background, I also had at one point a vibration at ONLY 2600-2800 RPM (regardless of gear/speed). Took it in, mechanic said we don't know. Then I did the research, found a TSB listing "vibration from 2600-2800 rpm" (LOL) and it turned out to need one of those little weights attached to the transmission or something to cancel out some harmonic resonance in the system. Problem #1 solved.

    Then took these spacers + LR3 wheels + Cooper tires on a 2000 mile road trip. Since then, they make a "buzzing" sound that you can hear from the driver seat and feel in the steering wheel at exactly 36mph (so now it's speed-specific, not RPM specific). Tire rotations don't change it (i.e. tire moved from anywhere to front left = same issue). Wheel balancing (regular and road force) = no difference. I finally started troubleshooting and started by borrowing a full set of 19" original LR4 rims + street tires BUT STILL ON THE BORA hub-centric spacers from Motor-tech. Vibration WENT AWAY! I then had the shop put my LR3 wheels and Cooper ST MAXXes back on - it was back in the identical fashion.

    So in summary, removing the LR3 18" rim + ST Maxx and swapping for 19" + street tires ON THE SPACERS = vibration gone. I'm still suspicious that it's a combination like wheel+tire weight over X on my bearings or some such other combination of factors.

    On the "rabbithole list" is: swap wheels / tires (getting rid of the spacers in the process just because they're a pain to get retorqued every time I get rotations done), repack the wheel bearings and see where I'm at. I read these long thread by the Original Poster and think "yikes - maybe I'll just put up with my 36mph gremlin forever and not try to chase it down - I don't need a lifetime long project."

    But I'm also tempted to continue down the rabbithole when I hear of success stories like yours and others in this thread and elsewhere in the forum.

    Anyway thank you for all the excellent points above. I'll look at those and add them to the thinking list for once I get past the tire/wheel replacement (which of course costs more money again than what I spent to do all this in the first place!)


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    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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