3K oil change intervals for our LR4s?

[John Robison]

Your responses, reasoning, and even tone have generated a lot of credibility in my mind. Is it your position that my 2013 5.0L engine could safely transition to 0-20 Castrol? I'm in the Mid-Atlantic (DC, so hot summers and fairly mild winters), work from home so no daily commute, and I enjoy road trips of 3-8 hrs one way (under normal, non-'rona circumstances). I drive about 15K mi/yr. 5-7500 oil change intervals w/Castrol Professional OE. Current odo ~70K.

Up until now the consensus seemed to be that 0-20 was a ploy to imperceptibly improve MPG. If it is actually an improved oil spec that's a different matter. Thanks for any advice.

The 2010-newer V8 engines are substantially the same inside. Bearings clearances, for example, have not changed. If your engine is the same, why wouldn't the most current factory advice apply? In my opinion there is no reason to think an oil recommended for a 2016 motor would not also be recommended for a 2010 engine.

When we take the motors apart - we routinely rebuilding these and other motors - the core clearances that determine needed viscosity have not changed. Parts that have changed, like gears or chain tensioners, are meant to be retrofitted to older motors on overhaul. Materials appear the same.

I do not know Land Rover's reasoning behind a change from 5-20 to 0-20. There have been several revisions to the oil spec for these motors since 2009, and I assume some of that is aimed at addressing the problems the motors have had. These are all "energy saving" oils so I'm not sure if that changes with the tweaks they have done

 

[cperez]

If your engine is the same, why wouldn't the most current factory advice apply?

A: I really don't know. Because sometimes we get factory advice that is demonstrable BS driven by CAFE standards and other factors that may not have anything to do with ensuring the longevity of our vehicles?

I'm not trying to argue after asking for your advice. The reason I asked is precisely because there is so much conflicting info and plausible yet contradictory opinion out there. I don't take engines apart for a living so I am trying to triangulate the best course of action by asking people in the know. Even there I see differing opinions.

I guess I'll go ahead and order some 0-20 Castrol for my next change. Thanks!

 

[John Robison]

A: I really don't know. Because sometimes we get factory advice that is demonstrable BS driven by CAFE standards and other factors that may not have anything to do with ensuring the longevity of our vehicles?

I'm not trying to argue after asking for your advice. The reason I asked is precisely because there is so much conflicting info and plausible yet contradictory opinion out there. I don't take engines apart for a living so I am trying to triangulate the best course of action by asking people in the know. Even there I see differing opinions.

I guess I'll go ahead and order some 0-20 Castrol for my next change. Thanks!

I understand people are skeptical of carmakers and their motives. They want to sell cars, not preserve the ones sold 5 years ago. I think we would agree carmakers also want to minimize warranty costs, so the oil they recommend for their new cars is likely to be the most durable stuff they can get for any given engine.

The chain problems are the main vulnerability in these newer motors, and I think the oil spec if probably evolving in an effort to address that. We work on Mercedes here also, and they changed specs a few times for Sprinters, finally explaining that the sulfur content of US diesel fuel is different from European diesel and they needed a different additive package in the oil to prevent premature engine failures. That is an example of a situation where it would be dangerous to ignore the most current advice in favor of what an owners manual said 10 years ago.

I have never known a carmaker to specify an inferior oil in today's world of plastics, alloys, etc. We have come a long way from the "oil is oil" thinking, and the idea that you choose by brand or weight, and not by meeting the manufacturer rating.

 

[gsxr]

... my 2013 5.0L engine could safely transition to 0-20 Castrol? I'm in the Mid-Atlantic (DC, so hot summers and fairly mild winters), work from home so no daily commute, and I enjoy road trips of 3-8 hrs one way (under normal, non-'rona circumstances). I drive about 15K mi/yr. 5-7500 oil change intervals w/Castrol Professional OE. Current odo ~70K.

Up until now the consensus seemed to be that 0-20 was a ploy to imperceptibly improve MPG. If it is actually an improved oil spec that's a different matter. Thanks for any advice.

It's my opinion that pretty much any time a water-thin oil is specified... and any time it's squeezed even thinner, like the move from 5W-20 to 0W-20... it's almost entirely for fuel economy reasons. Governments are continually tightening the screws on mfr's, pushing them to ever-higher MPG requirements.

Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily, if the engine was designed for the low viscosity, AND you change at appropriate intervals. Cperez, your usage description is pretty light, not what I'd consider "severe service". If there is minimal idling and lots of road trips, 7500 is fine. Even 10k shouldn't hurt; although I'd want an occasional oil analysis with TBN, due to the chain/tensioner issues.

Could you switch to 0W-20 that meets the JLR spec? Sure. Do you need to? Not really. Pretty much boils down to personal preference at this point. If my usage were like yours, I'd change at 10k (for convenience) with analysis. But we drive fewer miles and have more short trips, so I'm changing at 5k. VERY much depends on each situation. There is no "one size fits all" change interval.

 

[gsxr]

The chain problems are the main vulnerability in these newer motors, and I think the oil spec if probably evolving in an effort to address that. We work on Mercedes here also, and they changed specs a few times for Sprinters...

Ugh. I'm familiar with the BLUEtec fiasco on the OM642 in the Sprinters, and passenger vehicles. That's sort of apples & oranges though. I assume you've read the info from the guy who has a conspiracy theory on those issues, and has written multiple articles about it (link). I don't entirely agree with his conclusions, but he has some interesting points. VERY different situation vs the LR4 engines, gas or diesel.

I have never known a carmaker to specify an inferior oil in today's world of plastics, alloys, etc. We have come a long way from the "oil is oil" thinking, and the idea that you choose by brand or weight, and not by meeting the manufacturer rating.

Car makers don't specify an "inferior" oil, they have nothing to gain doing that. But they may push the limits of OCI in the interest of reducing maintenance costs, and only care about keeping the engine intact through warranty period (usually, 100-120k max). I agree that an oil should be used that matches the mfr's specs; this also means that spec "XYZ123" will also limit the allowable viscosities. The longer the OCI, the more critical it is to follow mfr specs for both oil type/spec, and OCI.

 

[ktm525]

It's my opinion that pretty much any time a water-thin oil is specified... and any time it's squeezed even thinner, like the move from 5W-20 to 0W-20... it's almost entirely for fuel economy reasons. Governments are continually tightening the screws on mfr's, pushing them to ever-higher MPG requirements.

Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily, if the engine was designed for the low viscosity, AND you change at appropriate intervals. Cperez, your usage description is pretty light, not what I'd consider "severe service". If there is minimal idling and lots of road trips, 7500 is fine. Even 10k shouldn't hurt; although I'd want an occasional oil analysis with TBN, due to the chain/tensioner issues.

Could you switch to 0W-20 that meets the JLR spec? Sure. Do you need to? Not really. Pretty much boils down to personal preference at this point. If my usage were like yours, I'd change at 10k (for convenience) with analysis. But we drive fewer miles and have more short trips, so I'm changing at 5k. VERY much depends on each situation. There is no "one size fits all" change interval.

This is all on point. Thinner oil push is fuel economy related. Nothing more nothing less. As another general rule the smaller the spread between the cold and hot viscosity numbers require less viscosity improvers and are more shear stable. They should be more consistent over the OCI. I will stick to to the 5W-20.

 

[Fuji4]

I’m sending off my oil to black stone labs next week when I change the Amsoil signature series 5w-20 after 13k miles is mixed driving. I ran Castrol through warranty then switched. I run between 8-15k miles between changes. This will be the first time to the lab but I don’t think there will be anything amiss at that mileage based on my research of the oil and others use patterns. To each his own but I think 3k mile changes is fruitless with a top quality synthetic. For me, I trust Amsoil and they say up to 25k miles. I will Conservatively assume that would be all highway and no towing. So I figure I am good for about 15k per change. But realistically I change Well before that anyways. I am interested to see what to TBN is after 13k and considering it’s a lot of city miles.

 

[gsxr]

As another general rule the smaller the spread between the cold and hot viscosity numbers require less viscosity improvers and are more shear stable. They should be more consistent over the OCI. I will stick to to the 5W-20.

This is also correct. The narrower the spread between numbers, generally it means less VI's, and more shear stable. I didn't want to get too deep into the weeds, but I feel the same way, and it's another reason I'm sticking with 5W-20 (Red Line) for my engine, at least until I find a reason to switch.

For anyone interested in more technical stuff, read up at the BITOG forum:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

 

[cperez]

Could you switch to 0W-20 that meets the JLR spec? Sure. Do you need to? Not really. Pretty much boils down to personal preference at this point. If my usage were like yours, I'd change at 10k (for convenience) with analysis. But we drive fewer miles and have more short trips, so I'm changing at 5k. VERY much depends on each situation. There is no "one size fits all" change interval.

Thanks for the input. I wasn't asking about OCI but furnished my info in the interest of giving as much relevant data as possible to John in case it influenced the advice he might offer (to my specific driving pattern, mileage, etc.). I agree I could go longer between changes but I decided to treat the Rover to frequent spa days and not have to worry (as much). I've accepted the cost and very minor effort. I actually enjoy the time in the garage with my music, my mutt, and a few beers.

Still a tossup in my mind about trying 0W-20 or not.

 

[Quijote]

That's interesting. A few years ago everyone was swearing by Mobil1 0W-40 for German cars. That's what I used on my 997TT and our Cooper S. I no longer have those cars but I'm still sitting on 5 quarts of it.