3K oil change intervals for our LR4s?

[ktm525]

The 5.0L V8 engine in the LR4 is a Jaguar AJ133 motor... and AFAICT it was a brand-new design, not related to anything Ford had in the 1990's. What Ford motor was it related to?

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3865/4299169/

There was a Ford "AJ" series of engines prior to this, but supposedly those have no relation to the AJ133 engine besides the first two letters happen to be the same.


Totally agree about the oil shearing after 7-10k, and that being completely different than sludge formation!

Truth has to be somewhere in the middle. There are parts hanging off the 5.0L AJ that say FoMoCo

 

[Quijote]

Truth has to be somewhere in the middle. There are parts hanging off the 5.0L AJ that say FoMoCo

There could well be several parts being used, but the block itself appears to be new. I found several references that speak of the all new, smaller, lighter, new block with better cooling channels. Who knows? Maybe bore sizes, manufacturing processes, tolerances, and other design elements are the same, but it appears it is not a directly carried-over block.

 

[John Robison]

You are right the 2010 engine has a different block from the 2009 style. It has a new number but is clearly a derivative of the first. We rebuild them steadily and from that vantage point (taking them apart) they are newer and older members of a family, not unrelated products. However that is not the point of my original comment, which was that these engines don't have sludge problems when the right oil is used, and they don't need or benefit from 3k oil changes.

As for the question about Ford heritage . . . you will see Ford logos on the timing chain pieces and other internal parts if you take these motors apart. Both this motor and the original have significant Ford influence even as the final implementation is Land Rover. The photo below shows a 2013 engine with Ford logos visible inside the timing cover. In this same photo, if you are familiar with the earlier motor (2005-2009 in LR, 1999-2009 in Jaguar) you'll note the timing chains are all different, and these have proven to be the weak point in this motor, hence my comment on the shearing of oil, not sludge breakdown, as the problem.

What that means is that it's most critical to use oil of the right grade and change before shearing starts to happen; hence my suggestion that 7500 is safer than 10000 which is known to cause problems. 3000 is not necessary and won't provide additional benefit.

 

[Quijote]

In this same photo, if you are familiar with the earlier motor (2005-2009 in LR, 1999-2009 in Jaguar) you'll note the timing chains are all different, and these have proven to be the weak point in this motor, hence my comment on the shearing of oil, not sludge breakdown, as the problem.
View attachment 10952

John, if you don't mind a tangential question, what is your take on the idea that late 2012-and-on LR4's had the issue corrected? At first we believed (hoped?) that such cars would be immune thanks to a revised part with an insert that would prevent the wear point, but we have heard some instances where cars beyond that production date have had issues.

 

[Quijote]

A bit off-topic but upon reading about the improved engine cooling for this block, I do have to say that this engine gets to temperature remarkably quickly. It's kind of amazing actually. It's a shame the cooling system is a weak point as far as leaks from hoses and pump, but when it works, it does work very well, in my opinion.

 

[ktm525]

When Ford released their Coyote 5.0L V8 in 2011 many thought they were one in the same with the AJ 5.0L. Curious they both developed a 5.0L V8 at the same time.

 

[John Robison]

Quijote, the engine in the photo is a newer motor, and it had chain troubles. I think these problems persisted into 2015 and possibly beyond. It's hard to say because the motors are not old enough yet. We thought the Bosch motor in the MY 2000 Discovery was a huge improvement and it took a number of years to discover the engines failed from improper oil gallery drillings and poorly fitted liners (a product of worn out tooling, most likely).

I would be wary of any of these engines as they approach 100k miles. I tell people, don't buy one of these if a $10k engine repair will cause you undue stress. With some cars, that kind of expense goes with the territory. Anyone who buys a new Autobiography for $140k should be able to handle it, but the buyer of a $10k secondhand LR4 may be in a different situation

 

[Quijote]

Thanks for the input. I've had mine since new and knew it would not be driven too much. I average under 7k miles per year, so I should be able to hold on to it for a long time, I hope.

 

[RoosterTrading]

I have been a Land Rover service manager for 33 years, since they returned to North America in 87. There was never a time US market Land Rovers required 3,000 mile oil changes.

In the case of a LR4, the engine is derived from a Ford design from the 1990s that used a $10 oil filter. When they went to direct injection there was a motor redesign and they changed to a much higher spec oil (more $$) and a much more costly oil filter - $40. The purpose of the more costly filter was to capture smaller particles and do it for a longer period of time, so the change interval could be stretched from 7,500 to beyond 10,000 miles.

The timing chain problems in these engines are well known and I have written about them on my blog. What IS NOT a problem in these newer motors, is sludge. If you use the correct LR spec oil you will not have sludge, even at 10k change intervals. I suggest people change the oil in these trucks at 7,500 miles because the chain problems suggest the oil is suffering shearing failure and allowing chain and gear wear, but that is not sludge.

I cannot see a benefit to a 3,000 mile change.

I do suggest using the more expensive filters because in this case you are getting what you pay for. I also suggest using the newest spec 0-20 JLR oil, as they are continually updating the spec and it is generally backward compatible. But this could change so if you read this in the future, check to see.

There is no basis for a 3k oil change in a LR4 when used on American highways.

I was also advised By Land Rover specialist to change the oil every 3k or 3 months in order to hopefully prevent the timing chain issue on my 2012 LR4 with 75k miles but he also recommended to run 10w40 high milage fully synthetic oil all year round (I live upstate NY where temps go down to 0 degrees) vs 0w20 winter or 5w20 summer that the dealership use.

All this was by phone call as I wanted him to check my LR4 for the possible timing chain issue as the engine has a ticking noise but he said to run the thicker oil and see if it quiets down first. He didn’t seem to run to take my money so I believed what he suggested.

I’ve been running the 10w40 for 1.5k miles so far and the engine seems a little less noisy, but might be also psychological...I plan on changing it at 3k miles and send an oil example to get tested.

I added a video of the engine running before changing to 10w40 if anyone has an opinion about the timing chain noise?

It’s interesting to see that so many Land Rover specialist have so many different opinion on this matter...

 

[Quijote]

I added a video of the engine running before changing to 10w40 if anyone has an opinion about the timing chain noise?

Interesting. At first I was going to say that is totally normal - sounds like mine. But later you do hear a secondary sound that I do not have.