Disco 5 hit with the ugly stick

[manoftaste]

I've owned multiple rovers and everyone screams blasphemy, it's the end of the world when there's a redesign. I agree its an evolutionary process with the goal to sell vehicles. While those of us who love the squareness remain stoic in our design likes, reality is designs have to change and I can say that after looking for a D5 to replace my touareg for a couple of months, I haven't been 100% loving the new design. However, someone in our parking garage has bought one and I've had several weeks walking past it to digest and I really think it's a great design evolution. It needs more aggressive tires and a rack (see the posting from Lucky8) and it becomes the SUV that rivals the LR4. I too am looking forward to the new Defender, as long as it doesn't look like a Jeep Renegade on steroids... Here's the Lucky8 link: https://www.lucky8llc.com/blogs/lucky8-blog/exploring-discovery-5-d5-options

I respectfully disagree.

Up until now, each redesign has always been evolutionary rather than a complete departure as an attempt now to cater to a completely different audience. And thats totally fine as we all know by now that Land Rover as a company is no longer in the business of designing purpose-built products targeting a certain lifestyle. A very distant example, Subaru, still is for that matter (only if they secured a good design lead).

Instead of designing, LR now is in the business of "styling" vehicles for volume sales. They are still forced to put R&D dollars into continuing developing sophisticated gadgetry like the Terrain Response, etc not because they really want to (as mommies could certainly do without all that), its only because they Have to as pretty much every other automaker in their competitions' list have now started to offer things like that. And also because LR is supposed to squeeze out even the last penny off their heritage, legacy, and now-former branding, otherwise there would not be anything left thats different from their competition. I mean, any automaker these days could hire talent/skills and have them write excellent all-wheel-drive algorithms if they needed to. Sadly, the days of real innovations (such as Terrain Response, cross-linked long-travel independent air suspension, IBF frame/chassis, etc.) are long gone at LR.

They want to generate cash via volume sales as its pretty clear by the direction and the statements coming out from their brass, however dumb and politically incorrect those statements maybe Such as this gem from Mr. McGovern defending his masterpiece, D5:

"Well, I could be quite glib about it. I’m a professional designer and they’re not..."

Ha. I mean, the arrogance of this man is simply unbelievable.

Well, Mr McGovern, you really are an idiot and amaze us. First, holding a position such as yours, you don't really make statements like the one above, publicly, even if you felt that way deep down in your heart.

Second, even if you are a professional designer, that does not automatically mean that every single piece of automotive product you design is going to be amazing, case in point, your latest creation.

Designs do not have to "change" just for the heck of it. Rather, they have to get better to deliver new features and to improve upon existing ones.

Amazes me that even today I get compliments, nods, and get asked: "What year model is this?" for a nearly 12 year old design of my LR4. And that is not because its an iconic design, its because it looks modern and current.

Mr. McGovern, as a "professional designer" in the automotive business, I am sure you have heard of the fact that sometimes, less is more

LR3/4' design was an excellent execution/solution to the problem of how to make an extremely functional and roomy box beautiful.

What an amazing opportunity they had to make the most unique SUV on the planet even better, both in terms of improving its design and functionalities. But they completely blew it, thanks to the shift in LR' philosophy driven by the economics rather than the quality of the product(s) itself driving the economics.

If all those millions that LR is spending now on those TV advertisements were directed toward educating and training their dealerships' sales departments about what they are actually selling, sales figures might have been different.

I mean, really, like how many models in the lineup an LR sales guide really has to thoroughly know about? Four or five? If all I did was sold five models and if thats how I made my living, I'd try to educate and know everything that there was to know about those five cars as much as I could for better sales and sales experience (vs concentrating merely on selling tactics.) And we all know how familiar and educated the LR sales guides are about their own cars.

I mean, fifteen minutes. Thats all I ask for. You give me just fifteen minutes with a family who has just walked into the showroom looking for a family SUV and I could sell them on an LR4 over anything else thats out there, even today, by comparing safety for them/their kids, features/functionality, usability, ride quality, unique features and their benefits, inspiring/active lifestyle (perhaps cleverly and discreetly linking it with the health benefits for them and their kids by referring to myself/relative/friend etc.)

And I have done just that once when I was hanging out at a dealership showroom while my car was being serviced. The sales guide there, who himself of course did not know much about LR4, was more than happy to have me talk to them. During my conversation with them, I conveyed to the interested couple about the safety benefits of the unique and world' only Integrated-Body Frame design of LR4 among other related advantages, etc. And I later found out that they ended up buying a '16 LR4.

But I guess that marvel of "professionalism" in the automative design industry, that signature slanted C pillar of D5, has taken the industry by storm, ha. Congratulations, Mr McGovern. Congratulations for raising the bar and achieving new heights and standards in the world of automotive design. Please don't forget to have the pictures of that slanted C pillar from various angles as an opener in your personal portfolio.

Last week, while I was having a coffee at a local shop, noticed a D5 in gray passing by me, pulling over and then making a turn into a parking lot across the street from me, and I got to witness that C pillar again with its equally and faithfully complimenting rear end in a 3/4 view, ha, and I thought to myself:

Man... I mean, I've really kinda been wanting to like it despite all those lost functionalities (loss of fold-flat seating for for cargo area, higher belt line resulting in loss of overall visibility, loss of the command driving seat position, loss/reduction in stadium seating, drastic increase in overall height as you open the rear cargo door for full access with the fear of it hitting the low ceiling in a parking lot, etc.) but I can't help it at all I don't think this thing will ever grow on me

Even hung around the SVX/Offroad version for a while at the LA auto show here a few weeks ago, looking at it from different angles in the hopes that I may develop some love for it, but except maybe the front end, the damn thing is just so damn ugly overall, specially for that price tag

 

[PaulLR3]

I had the opportunity to take it on the LR course in Asheville this past September and I don't care what anyone says on this forum...it handles much better off road and you can feel the 1k lbs of weight that was taken off when you are up on 3 wheels teetering. The view from the driver's seat is slightly hindered, but not much. All in all, it's a different vehicle that looks different but the one I drove felt more confident/capable off road, so at least they got that right.

I'm sure that weight loss would really improve sand driving. And the aluminum unibody won't rust like the LR4 frame. I recently saw an LR3 at the dealer on Cape Cod getting a new frame transplant.

 

[iSurfvilano]

Instead of designing, LR now is in the business of "styling" vehicles for volume sales.

Umm...yeah. That's kind of how business works unless you are a niche automaker.

Hate to say it but for every one of us that adores the LR4/Defender design there are double the amount that prefer the more modern style. That's not an opinion, that is where the money is going...combined with better fuel efficiency with a lighter vehicle and lower manufacturing costs is why more companies are heading in that direction. Going into $50k+ egg shaped luxury unibody SUVs is becoming big business now. It's working very well for LR with it's RRS sales compared to the 2013 body style.

Now, Land Rover could just pull a low volume vehicle manufacturer move and pump out only one or two niche vehicles that look iconic and charge more for them. Like what Rezvani is doing with their "tank" ($178k) --- But I'm not willing to pay well over six figures for an updated LR4. Which is what would happen if LR just catered to the small population of purists. Everyone here wants LR to stay true to their iconic, utilitarian design, much like Merc did with the G-Wagon but at the moment that would not appear sustainable for a company that has less than 1% of the market share...well if LR could sell as many vehicles as Merc in the US then they probably would have a vehicle they can lose money on that would sell in small numbers. BUT...comparing the two and their sales in 2016 it wouldn't make sense for LR to do this, yet. Merc sold 374k units in the US compared to LRs 73k (source: http://carsalesbase.com)

I am actually excited with the new direction they are taking. I hope they make tons of money and sell tons of vehicles so that one day they can have the money to cater to the niche buyers like Mercedes has been able to do throughout the years. And if LR lays an egg with the new Defender then I'm not above moving to another brand...but for now I love my LR4 (even though I wish she was lighter and had a SCV8.)

 

[iSurfvilano]

There is a Simpsons episode that illustrates when a company puts a lot of money into developing a low volume sales vehicle. Season 2, episode 15

 

[mpinco]

Or you can think back to Triumph Motor Cars who moved away from the classic design of the TR6, to the "Shape Of Things To Come" TR7. While Triumph sold many TR7's they lost their base and after initial sales they are now gone. Yes there were many other contributors to their demise but watering down the brand has a predictable outcome. My perspective is finding a TR7 up on jacks, buying it for $700, getting it back on the road for a few hundred more, enjoying it for a summer and having people call out "Nice Fiat X1/9!" or "Nice Toyota!". I fully expect the D5 to be referred to as a nice fill-in-the-blank egg-shaped SUV. Ford Explorer comes to mind.

I sold the TR7 (Fiat/Toyota) and have found a TR6 and Healey 3000 for enjoyment to complement my LR4 and Discovery Series I.

 

[magnumforc]

Having owned several LR4's (one still driven daily) my personal opinion is that LR is attempting to homogenize their offerings into vehicles that look alike across the entire line, one simply being larger than the next. (We also have a 2016 Jaguar XF S and they did that with the XE as well) Not that is a bad thing but I have no interest in owning a new vehicle that looks like the rest of the line. To have an LR that looks like an Explorer, I might as well buy an Explorer for almost half the price. I have also owned numerous Explorers and they were pretty decent considering they are not in the LR class. Best one was an Ironman Edition that was made one year only. Pic below if you have never seen one.

I will keep the 2013 LR4 until the wheels fall off or it rusts away or whatever leads to its demise. It still commands attention on the road and drives so well in any condition. We also had a Evoque and that was a mistake. However it looks like a smaller Velar which looks like a smaller Disco Sport which looks like.....you know.

 

[Davidinseattle]

I was chatting with the service manager at my local dealer and he said they can't keep an LR4 on the lot. he said they took one in trade the other day and sold it before it went to detail.

 

[magnumforc]

Yes. In fact the dealer in Carlsbad, CA stated the same. We told him we were not interested in selling the LR4. They are fast sellers especially in pristine condition.

 

[cperez]

I was chatting with the service manager at my local dealer and he said they can't keep an LR4 on the lot. he said they took one in trade the other day and sold it before it went to detail.

I got my preowned 2013 in late October. It was still under warranty at the time and I had it into my local dealership for some minor stuff. A couple of days before Christmas (less than 2 months after I took delivery), the dealer called me to ask if I'd be interested in selling it. I declined of course but definitely took it as a compliment.

 

[ktm525]

Now that LR has lost the distinctiveness and has become like every other CUV/SUV brand will they be good enough to sell? Does LR build a better Q7? GL? X5? Who knows but it is a very competitive world.