Diy timing chain

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djkaosone

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Have any of you heard anything about adjusting the exhaust valves?

I would highly recomend doing a compression test AND walnut blasting (or cleaning your valves) before adjusting your valves. If you're doing that, you'll need to know the tolerances and feeler gauge sizes to adjust the valves properly.

In other words, I wouldn't do it unless I have compression issues or bent valves.
 

AGLR4

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Have any of you heard anything about adjusting the exhaust valves? My local specialty shop heavily recommended checking and making adjustments while doing the timing chains. Apparently the exhaust side is manually adjusted with these stupid bucket shims and you have to pull the cams to replace them. Out of spec results in extra noise and rougher running. I haven’t found the procedure in my manual or the clearance spec.
I checked and adjusted mine while I was doing my head gaskets recently. They were pretty much all out of spec. The tolerance is really tight so it doesn't take a lot to get out of spec. As you can see in the document attached the spec is 0.25 mm plus or minus 0.02 mm. The intake side is hydraulically adjusted so nothing to do there. The exhaust side however is mechanical and requires a new bucket for each one that is out of spec. I found a few dealerships online that sell these for about $10 a piece so less than $200 for the materials even if you have to replace them all. If you do a little math you can actually swap some of them around so that you don't have to buy all new ones.

There is definitely not an absolute right answer for everyone. Sure, out of tolerance will generate more noise, increased wear on the cams and followers, and also maybe even open the valve slightly less losing a little bit of efficiency. Over all though, the engine probably already has plenty of miles on it so the valves themselves are worn the valve seals are worn and many other components are also worn, so the gains in returning these valves to tolerances are probly minimal over all. In my case I chose to do so because I already had it all apart and was able to put in new valves and seals at the same time.

Lifting the Cam is pretty simple once the timing chain and valve cover is already off. At that point it does not represent much additional work. Get the quote and then decide what it's worth to you.
a1beb17674755968f3d2daafd381e5a2.jpg


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DaytonaRS7

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Wondering what OP and others think about this "easy" method to replace tensioners and guides:


so im thinking of doing my timing chain as preventative. ive got 144k miles and while i dont think its sloppy, id sleep better knowing that it wont fail and leave me stranded.
does anyone have any more info in a DIY process that is shown in that video?

seems like....
remove as much as possible from the front of the engine. intake/ coolant hoses/fan/belts/vaccum pump/tensionsers.
remove sensors and timing chain covers.
-need to loosen valve coves and pry them up a few MM.
lock cams in place with zip-ties.do not rotate crank. do not move/remove chain.
remove/replace guides and tensioners.
reinstall all parts.

is there anything im overlooking?
am i downplaying any of these steps?

The only thing that has me concerned of doing it this way is the valve cover seal. by saving time now, do you think im opening myself up for future valve cover leaks? that front edge of the cover seal is supplements with RTV gasket....will it "reseal"?
 

djkaosone

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@DaytonaRS7 I've heard 2 scenarios.

1) If you don't have chain issues you might be one of the lucky few.

2) Change the timing chain tensioners and guides, but while your at it there's a slew of other things to do.

If you fit into #2 then, chains can stretch. Mine didn't, I checked it against the new chain. With that said, I skipped changing the oil pump chain and guide and reused the old chain. My theory is, if there was any micro stretch on any of the chains changing 1 chain will throw off the timing.

Other things to do while you're in there is cooling (water pump, oil cooler pipe, thermostat, cooling pipes, upper crossover pipe, rear crossover pipe, etc...), valve cover gaskets, injector cleaning, injector gaskets, cleaning carbonized valves, cleaning the old oil buildup in the screws behind the cam sprockets, and other minor things.

You can definitely do the shortcut way to resolve the major timing chain tensioner/guide issue. However, if you truly want a peace of mind I recommend taking a few more hours and extra parts to pull off the injectors and valve covers. It's actually a few more $ to replace the injectors than to send it in for ultrasonic cleaning, blueprint matching spray patterns, and new o- rings. The valve cover rubber gaskets are infamous for leaking over time, so, might as well address it.

That's my 2 cents.
 

DaytonaRS7

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@DaytonaRS7 I've heard 2 scenarios.

1) If you don't have chain issues you might be one of the lucky few.

2) Change the timing chain tensioners and guides, but while your at it there's a slew of other things to do.

If you fit into #2 then, chains can stretch. Mine didn't, I checked it against the new chain. With that said, I skipped changing the oil pump chain and guide and reused the old chain. My theory is, if there was any micro stretch on any of the chains changing 1 chain will throw off the timing.

Other things to do while you're in there is cooling (water pump, oil cooler pipe, thermostat, cooling pipes, upper crossover pipe, rear crossover pipe, etc...), valve cover gaskets, injector cleaning, injector gaskets, cleaning carbonized valves, cleaning the old oil buildup in the screws behind the cam sprockets, and other minor things.

You can definitely do the shortcut way to resolve the major timing chain tensioner/guide issue. However, if you truly want a peace of mind I recommend taking a few more hours and extra parts to pull off the injectors and valve covers. It's actually a few more $ to replace the injectors than to send it in for ultrasonic cleaning, blueprint matching spray patterns, and new o- rings. The valve cover rubber gaskets are infamous for leaking over time, so, might as well address it.

That's my 2 cents.

thanks for the input.

id like to assume that my chain hasn't stretched, and ignore the chain replacement.

when checking through the oil cap, the chain seems tight. a little slack,but nothing alarming. however, i dont know exactly how much is too much? maybe i can push it 1/8". ill get an actual measurement later.

i dont think engine is overly noisy, but again..i dont have anything to compare against.

Ive already replace water pump, oil cooler pipe and crossovers. so from your recommended list, that leaves injectors and valve cover gasket.
my fuel trims look OK and my valve cover isn't leaking. if i can leave all them in, maybe it would be better to not open a can of worms i don't need to. this is the only reason im thinking of going the "cheap" route.
 
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AGLR4

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@DaytonaRS7

Daytona, what year is your truck? I recently did a head gasket job so I am pretty familiar with the whole top end and timing chain system on this 5.0. What I have noticed is that some of the timing chain concerns stem from a poor design of the initial timing chain guide. On the back of the guide where the tensioner presses, the material was not hard enough. Therefore over time the tensioner wears into the back of the guide and no longer applies sufficient pressure. The worst case scenario is when the hole in the back of the guide becomes so deep that the tensioner binds within it. The attached document suggests that this was a problem identified and corrected in later model years. The Vin number ranges are listed in this document as well. It looks like it primarily affects 2010 through 2012 LR4s. Mine was a 2011 and it did have this problem when I dug into it. The new tensioner and guides that you will find should have a hardened metal button on the back where the tensioner contacts the guide.

If you note slack in the chain, I would say get on it. There should not be slack in the system.
26c93a63d5f017b306cb058026e63715.jpg


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DaytonaRS7

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@DaytonaRS7

Daytona, what year is your truck? I recently did a head gasket job so I am pretty familiar with the whole top end and timing chain system on this 5.0. What I have noticed is that some of the timing chain concerns stem from a poor design of the initial timing chain guide. On the back of the guide where the tensioner presses, the material was not hard enough. Therefore over time the tensioner wears into the back of the guide and no longer applies sufficient pressure. The worst case scenario is when the hole in the back of the guide becomes so deep that the tensioner binds within it. The attached document suggests that this was a problem identified and corrected in later model years. The Vin number ranges are listed in this document as well. It looks like it primarily affects 2010 through 2012 LR4s. Mine was a 2011 and it did have this problem when I dug into it. The new tensioner and guides that you will find should have a hardened metal button on the back where the tensioner contacts the guide.

If you note slack in the chain, I would say get on it. There should not be slack in the system.
26c93a63d5f017b306cb058026e63715.jpg


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i have a 2011 with 144k miles.
i do not notice any significant noise.
when i poke at the chain through the oil fill hole, i get maybe 1/8" at most of slack movement. not sure how much is too much?

im well aware of the issue and that my truck falls in the range of trucks affected. im more curious of the extent of repair.
and people opinions on the "cheap" way of doing it and loosening the valve covers, only enough to slip out the timing covers. chances of valve cover leak afterwards?
 

blake aiken

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I didn’t do the rtv when I did my full tear down. I think have some oil sweating that dust is sticking to but haven’t noticed anything dripping. These were new gaskets though so they are likely much more pliable than your current gasket. If you aren’t comfortable doing timing work and your truck isn’t running like garbage I’d skip the top end. You’ll save a good chunk of change on parts, tools and time doing the shortcut route.

If you decide to go full tilt I recommend fcp for the injectors, plugs and anything else that’s a wear item. Their lifetime warranty is awesome and I broke half the injectors trying to get them out. You should also spend some time cleaning the intake valves , a lot of time if your doing it with brushes like I did.
 

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