Diy timing chain

[avslash]

@djkaosone

I'm following this thread with great interest, as I am attempting to gear myself up to do it, as well.

2 questions, if you don't mind responding.

If I understand correctly, you want the engine at #1 TDC prior to tear down. This would be indicated by the keyway on the crankshaft being at the 6:00 position, and in this position the timing marks on the cam sprockets and the chain guides should be aligned with the colored links on the timing chains. From this position, you can install the camshaft locking bars and the flywheel lock and proceed with tear down and then reassemble with new chains with colored links again aligned with cam sprocket and chain guide timing marks and engine should be in proper time upon reassembly.

Question 1.
As indicated in your first post, there is not an index mark on the crank pulley. Can you set the crankshaft keyway to 6:00 after removing the crank pulley by threading the crank bolt back in after pulley removal and then using that bolt to rotate the crank/engine to the keyway at 6:00 position with the transmission in neutral?

Question 2.
Am I understanding your most recent post correctly in that you are finding there is enough chain slack to replace the timing chains without removing the sprockets/vvt units from the camshafts?

ETA: Question 3. Are there timing marks on both both camshafts on each bank? Looking at the service manual, it doesn't appear to show them. It looks like there are marks on the exhaust cam on bank 1, and the intake cam on bank 2.

Thanks. You have my vote for thread of the year so far.

 

[avslash]

Well, in doing more research, I believe I have answered my questions 1 and 3. Thanks to @Pfunk951 for posting it.

Found this graphic from another thread, which I surmise must have been from the TSB, as I haven't seen it in the service manual.

Question 1.

Looks like there is a crankshaft timing pin tool that installs in place of the crankshaft position sensor (CKP). The bulletin reads like this tool can only be seated and installed when the crankshaft is positioned with the keyway at 6:00 as the bulletin reads "Turn crankshaft in direction of engine rotation until crankshaft timing pin can be installed".

Question 3.
Per the bulletin, there are timing marks on all 4 camshaft sprockets. It states "Ensure coloured or painted chain links aligned with timing marks on each camshaft adjuster and chain guide".

Would still love to hear your thoughts on removing the cam sprockets/vvt. The bulletin says to pull them, but if not necessary, that sounds like a significant reduction in complexity.

Removal
Remove crankshaft position (CKP) sensor.
Turn crankshaft in direction of engine rotation until crankshaft timing pin can be installed [1] .
Ensure crankshaft sprocket keyway at 6 o’clock position [2] .
NOTE: If crankshaft sprocket keyway at 9 o’clock position, replace drive plate.

Ensure groove in rear of camshafts positioned as shown [3] .
Remove RH bank timing chain tensioner and tensioner blade.
Slacken bolts of each RH bank camshaft adjuster [4] .
Remove RH bank camshaft adjusters and timing chain.
Remove LH bank timing chain tensioner and tensioner blade.
Slacken bolts of each LH bank camshaft adjuster [5] .
Remove LH bank camshaft adjusters and timing chain.
NOTE: Crankshaft sprocket friction washers MUST be replaced [6] .

Installation
Ensure crankshaft timing pin correctly fitted [1] .
Ensure crankshaft sprocket keyway at 6 o’clock position [2] .
Ensure groove in rear of camshafts positioned as shown [3] .
Install camshaft turning tools to front of LH bank camshafts [7] .
Install camshaft alignment tool to rear of LH bank camshafts [8] .
Ensure camshaft alignment tool engages in end of camshafts. Secure tool with bolts [9] . Finger tighten bolts.
Rock camshafts slightly to ensure camshaft alignment tool located correctly.
Remove camshaft turning tools [7] .
Install camshaft turning tools to front of RH bank camshafts [7] .
Install camshaft alignment tool to rear of RH bank camshafts [8] .
Ensure camshaft alignment tool engages in end of camshafts. Secure tool with bolts [9] . Finger tighten bolts.
Rock camshafts slightly to ensure camshaft alignment tool located correctly.
Lock LH and RH bank timing chain tensioners in retracted position:
NOTE: There are two types of tensioner.

Tensioner – type A:
Push plunger into tensioner body in direction of arrow [10] .
Insert a suitable pin into tensioner body to lock tensioner plunger in position [11] .
Tensioner – type B:
Turn tensioner pawl fully clockwise [12] .
Push plunger into tensioner body in direction of arrow [13] .
Turn tensioner pawl fully anti-clockwise [12] .
Insert a suitable pin into tensioner body to lock tensioner plunger in position [14] .
Install LH bank camshaft adjusters and timing chain as an assembly. Finger tighten bolts.
Ensure coloured or painted chain links aligned with timing marks on each camshaft adjuster and chain guide [15] , [16] & [17] .
Install LH bank timing chain tensioner and tensioner blade.
Install RH bank camshaft adjusters and timing chain as an assembly. Finger tighten bolts.
Ensure coloured or painted chain links aligned with timing marks on each camshaft adjuster and chain guide [18] , [19] & [20] .
Install RH bank timing chain tensioner and tensioner blade.
Remove pin to release timing chain tensioner plunger [11] & [14] .
Install timing chain pre-tensioning tool to LH bank inlet camshaft adjuster [21] .
Apply a pre-tensioning torque of 35 Nm.
Tighten LH bank exhaust camshaft adjuster bolts. Tightening torque: 32 Nm.
Tighten LH bank inlet camshaft adjuster bolts. Tightening torque: 32 Nm.
Remove timing chain pre-tensioning tool [21] .
Install timing chain pre-tensioning tool to RH bank exhaust camshaft adjuster [22] .
Apply a pre-tensioning torque of 35 Nm.
Tighten RH bank inlet camshaft adjuster bolts. Tightening torque: 32 Nm.
Tighten RH bank exhaust camshaft adjuster bolts. Tightening torque: 32 Nm.
Remove timing chain pre-tensioning tool [22] .
Remove camshaft alignment tools [8] .
Remove crankshaft timing pin [1] .
Fit flywheel/drive plate locking tool [23] .
Temporarily fit crankshaft pulley bolt with M16 washer. Tightening torque: 50 Nm.
Remove flywheel/drive plate locking tool [23] .
Turn crankshaft two turns clockwise.
Fit flywheel/drive plate locking tool [23] .
Remove crankshaft pulley bolt.
Remove flywheel/drive plate locking tool [23] .
Turn crankshaft in direction of engine rotation until crankshaft timing pin can be installed [1] .
Ensure camshaft alignment tools can be fitted [8] . If not, repeat timing chain installation.
Remove camshaft alignment tools [8] .
Remove crankshaft timing pin [1] .
There are two types of crankshaft pulley bolt:
Bolt classification – 10.9 (RH thread).
Bolt classification – 12.9 (LH thread).
Tighten crankshaft pulley bolt. Use new bolt. Tightening torque: 200 Nm + 270°.

 

[ryanjl]

As a fan of well-drawn schematics, now that the dealer has done my timing chain and guides, I want to blow that picture up and hang it on my wall.

If my dealer hadn't done my guides, I'd want to print that picture out just to burn it.

 

[cperez]

I want to blow that picture up and hang it on my wall.

You're right, it would make a cool poster for the garage wall...

 

[Aretools]

Thankyou for posting this thread with lots of detail. Currently I have a 2011 LR4 150,633miles/170,000km and I just replaced the water pump. When i start the engine cold it has a ticking sound, and it goes away and comes back moments later. I mention it every time I bring it to the dealer, but no diagnosis. Is this a timing chain noise? What were the early signs that the chain or rails needed to be replaced? Secondly how many miles/kms do you have while doing this operation?

 

[djkaosone]

Question 1.
As indicated in your first post, there is not an index mark on the crank pulley. Can you set the crankshaft keyway to 6:00 after removing the crank pulley by threading the crank bolt back in after pulley removal and then using that bolt to rotate the crank/engine to the keyway at 6:00 position with the transmission in neutral?

I should have known better and done things the way I typically done things in the past. To truly set your TDC, chock your wheels, put it in neutral, remove cylinder 1 spark plug (RH side when looking from inside), put a long kabob stick down the spark plug hole till it hits the piston, turn your crank with a 24mm socket and 24" or longer breaker bar clockwise until you find the stick at its highest point. That's when the piston is at the top and the lobes on the camshaft is pointing directly upwards and there are no gaps on the valves to valve ports on the head. That will give you the best results for getting the crank (6:00 position) and camshafts (cylinder 1 cam lobes in 12:00 position if you line it up with the head) in the correct position. The ONLY way to tell is to remove the valve covers and crank pulley.

Question 2.
Am I understanding your most recent post correctly in that you are finding there is enough chain slack to replace the timing chains without removing the sprockets/vvt units from the camshafts?

Yes, there is enough chain slack to replace everything without removing the sprockets and vvt. I removed one on the LH side on the exhaust camshaft and realized that I didn't have to remove it on the RH side. I reinstalled the LH side and was still able to do my thing. Just know it'll be tight, but still manageable. I've placed the chain on the sprocket in front of the actual gears to move it clockwise/counter clockwise to be in position.

ETA: Question 3. Are there timing marks on both both camshafts on each bank? Looking at the service manual, it doesn't appear to show them. It looks like there are marks on the exhaust cam on bank 1, and the intake cam on bank 2.

This gets a bit confusing, but I'm glad you brought it up. The OEM chain from factory, well at least mine, only had 2 yellow markings for the camshafts. The new one had 3, 2 yellow for the camshafts and 1 white for lining it up with the fixed chain guide marking. The yellow markers are to line up intake and exhaust camshafts for proper valves to open and close in perfect rotation and timing. The white marker is to line up timing between the crankshaft (pistons and everything in the block) and the camshafts (cams and everything in the head). Since I reused my perfectly fine timing chain, I counted the links on the new chain (24 chain links) and marked it on the old chain with a white oil-based permanent marker (it marks up anything and everything, love them).

Overall, this process took forever and you HAVE to be patient. I seriously lined it up 20 times and when I thought I'd get it, it'll jump. If you recall the special tool I made out of wood and deck screws, well that's your friend. I have the special tool that the manual suggests, but it's flimsy. In terms of putting a ratcheting wrench on it or even a 10" breaker bar, theres just so much movement that it pops off the gear often and can potentially scar the gear to ultimately embedding and damaging your chain in the future. Well that's my opinion, it works if done properly with someone holding it and someone lining up the chain. I was running solo on this, and I just don't trust anyone else to touch it. Again, patience is key and once it's lined up put the tensioner in, but don't pull the pin until you've done both sides.

 

[djkaosone]

Would still love to hear your thoughts on removing the cam sprockets/vvt. The bulletin says to pull them, but if not necessary, that sounds like a significant reduction in complexity.

I forgot to add to this, that I seriously followed the Workshop manual to the T. These are just my personal findings and things that you should do to save yourself a ton of headaches. There are tools that I have that I didn't use and have no use for since I was just doing the timing chain guides and tensioner, well that's after me finding everything else was still in working order. There's a saying, "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" This is the case for me. I understand futureproofing your vehicle, be there's a chance to introduce other issues if they can be avoided.

Another thought I had was; Since I was reusing my old timing chain, I should reuse the crank timing chain as well because there might be micro or nano stretching of the chain due to age. If I kept all the used chains in place, timing will ALWAYS be the same. If I changed 1 chain, the new chain might not have the same specs as the old chain and could potentially cause some damage. Well, again with my theories.

 

[djkaosone]

I suppose its time for an update.

I started to walnut blast the intake valve ports. I made a little sandblasting containment with all the Amazon boxes I had laying around. I made a wall barrier on the intake valve side, a backsplash wall, a floor wall, and then draped a painters drop cloth to catch all the debris from hitting the engine and its internals. As I'm sandblasting cylinder 1, which was TDC and the cam valve lobes are pointing at 12:00 from the head, I'm not yielding the results as hoped. Fine walnut media is just every where even with my Rigid 6 HP shop vac with a modified/molded attachment can't contain it. So I ordered a special tool just for this, it's made for the Mini, but used in Audis, BMWs, Minis, and now a Rover.

I grew tired of waiting on tools to come in and decided start bolting everything back up together. If my memory serves me correctly the torque specs are all listed on the front page of 303-01D for the Engine V8 5.0L. I'm surprised that the crank plate didn't use or require any silicone seal, but oh well. I'm not too concerned as it's fairly easy to get to if needed. Now reflecting back, I need to triple-check the manual again.

Most of my time was seriously cleaning off the old silicone from the camshaft plates and the block. I've cleaned everything with a gasket scraper for the bigger pieces, then I went back in using the back of the blade of those cheap box cutters from Harbor Freight. Surprisingly, it gets it cleaned up pretty well. I've also cleaned off the t30 bolts from grime and excess silicone holding it down. I just stopped there as my hands are now semi-permanently seized up from brushing, scraping, and wrenching.

Pictures to come.

 

[djkaosone]

Before walnut blasting in cylinder 1.

After walnut blasting without the proper tools.

Copper high temp silicone seal for the camshaft covers. I laid down a thin coat and used my gloved finger to evenly spread it around.

 

[djkaosone]

I mention it every time I bring it to the dealer, but no diagnosis. Is this a timing chain noise? What were the early signs that the chain or rails needed to be replaced?

I'm not 100% sure if it is or not. How I found out was pretty ridiculous. Prior to my 700+ mile RT from San Diego to Yosemite, I removed the hood liner and the engine cover for cleaning. PS, do NOT get the hood liner soaking wet, it disintegrates (paper and water, not good). Anyhow, everything was fine until I reached Yosemite. The incline wasn't steep at all, but when the engine was under load (stepping on the gas to haul up the mountain) in D or S mode I heard a faint sound of chains slapping against something. I only know the sound because I mountain bike and sometimes my derailleurs aren't properly tuned and my chains slap around everywhere when shifting. Anyhow, that's how I found out.

THE best way to find out is to simply open up the oil filler cap, use your finger and press/pull on the chain. IF it moves, then it's your timing chain tensioner not giving enough tension. And you'll find yourself doing what I'm doing.

Secondly how many miles/kms do you have while doing this operation?

I have about 109k miles on it.