Long crank, no faults

[Jimmy Brooks]

Here to bring this thread and most likely all my time spent here to an end. Stopped by today to find out that she jumped time. Not actual time but a tooth on the high pressure fuel pump timing. They said they “might” (if they are unable to then I’ve spent money for nothing) be able to go in through the front of the engine to put the timing back a tooth which would fix the car but not guarantee that it wouldn’t just jump time again. And 6k is a lot for no guarantee. They said they have done the job once before. The other option is to pull the whole body off the frame and access the timing through the oil pan and do it properly replacing the guides for the high pressure fuel pump. At that point why not just rebuild the whole engine while it’s out or at least do the guides. With that I’m looking at 10k+ of labor and parts not including doing the actual timing chain on the car. It’s all just starting to not make sense. If anyone has any wisdom to drop or if there is an easier way to do this please feel free to tell me. But as of now it seems like my LR4s time has run out (quite literally) and same goes to say with my time here on this forum. Quite a sad ending to and issue that seemed so small but I guess these are the risks we take and the things we sign up for when driving these brilliant two faced machines. She’ll either stick by your side and support everything you do or she’ll leave you with a hole in your wallet and a hole in your heart.

 

[dlimanov]

apologies if this is obvious, but there’s no way to do a hpfp timing guide/chain without removing the body off of the frame? I could swear some of the timing chain videos showed an oil pump/hpfp chain and guides being replaced at the same time during the main guide work..

 

[16FujiDisco]

Oh man, that’s a major bummer. Any chance you would be willing to take a shot at DIYing it before throwing in the towel? I totally understand not wanting to throw $6-10k at a maybe

 

[Jimmy Brooks]

apologies if this is obvious, but there’s no way to do a hpfp timing guide/chain without removing the body off of the frame? I could swear some of the timing chain videos showed an oil pump/hpfp chain and guides being replaced at the same time during the main guide work..

Could you link it. They said they may be able to roll it back a tooth but they said they couldn’t do the full job unless the oil pan is off. I would rather be wrong and save the car so no offense taken if you can recorrect me.

6k scares me though even as is. Wondering if a different shop would give me a better price, but even then I’m taking a risk because I know my shop is reputable and a new shop would be questionable especially out here in California.

 

[Jimmy Brooks]

There was also one other thing that made me question the whole timing thing. The issue slowly got worse over time. But why? If it jumped time wouldn’t it be instantly bad cold starting? Why would it progressively get worse over time? It started off as maybe once every 2 weeks to once a week to once a while to every cold start out side to every cold start after 4ish hours and then from every start after an hour. This was over the course of a 3-4 months. That just doesn’t make sense to me. Why would it slowly get worse?

 

[Nechaken]

If it really slipped, shouldn’t it be hard to start ALL the time? And wouldn’t it run poorly after it does?

 

[djkaosone]

Stopped by today to find out that she jumped time. Not actual time but a tooth on the high pressure fuel pump timing.

Sorry to hear that @Jimmy Brooks. How the heck did they figure the HPFP skipped timing without pulling off the front timing cover?

I agree with @16FujiDisco that you should at least try to diy it. Opening it up is probably the only way to really see if the lower timing chain skipped timing,

.

If you decide to diy, I'm more than happy to give you a guided tour and/or tips/tricks.

 

[jlglr4]

I am interested to know how they determined that the fuel pump timing is off. And why no other drivability or other issues. Seems like fuel trims would be off at least as the pressure pulse would not be timed to the fuel injector. I assumed that’s how the system works.

 

[Jimmy Brooks]

I am interested to know how they determined that the fuel pump timing is off. And why no other drivability or other issues. Seems like fuel trims would be off at least as the pressure pulse would not be timed to the fuel injector. I assumed that’s how the system works.

Believe he said they pulled the high pressure fuel pumps and were just able to see the cam follower and the markings and determine that it was just one tooth off.

As for the preformance thing I’m kinda stumped by it as well. They seemed to have the same reaction of being shocked as well. They said their guess is that one tooth isn’t enough to make a noticeable difference while running but enough to make it noticeable when it matters (cold starts). They also said they’ve seen one jag with the same issue but it was 2 teeth off and didn’t run at all. They said they also threw a new low pressure sensor in along with a new high pressure sensor. Believe they also threw new cam correlation sensors in.

Along with being so stumped with preformance I’m also stumped on why the issue would get gradually worse over time rather than just being as bad as it is now all at once.

In theory wouldn’t the car readjust spark timing and pluse timing via knock sensor to accommodate for the improperly timed fuel pump or is that theory out of wack.

 

[djkaosone]

Here's a thought, what if you reset the engine values with the gap iid tool? This will force the ecu to relearn new values.