LR4 Binding Brakes
- Thread starter woodyNwoodinville
- Start date
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jlglr4
Full Access Member
I was thinking you were get shudder when applying the brakes, which almost always points to warped rotors (i.e., from heat/brake drag). Is the shudder happening when you are off the brakes? Feeling it through the steering wheel, or more generally throughout the car? Wheel bearings usually start making a roaring noise long before they get bad enough to start shuddering, but certainly possible. Maybe put it on a jack and check for play in the wheel. Also, turn the wheel by hand - listen to see if the brake is dragging or other odd noises.
Also wondering if your traction control/abs could be acting up - I seem to recall seeing a post about that once (bad wheel speed sensor). Can’t remember if it threw any codes - but might check for codes just in case.
Lots of other things could cause a shudder, but nothing I can think of that would account for one front wheel heating up more than the rest, unless that’s maybe just a coincidence here.
woodyNwoodinville
Member
PaulLR3- Interesting you say you replaced your calipers at 130K. I just crested 135K on my 2011.
So Atlantic British has what they call "OEM" calipers for the fronts listed at $370 each. Do we think those are brand new, or rebuilt? Websites doesn't say. Alternatively NAPA sells re-manufactured front calipers for $135 each. They specifically say they have been taken apart, cleaned and rebuilt. The picture on their website shows the LandRover and TRW monograms on the calipers. What does the extra $200 buy from A-B? Could the theirs be brand new at that price?
Thanks.
So Atlantic British has what they call "OEM" calipers for the fronts listed at $370 each. Do we think those are brand new, or rebuilt? Websites doesn't say. Alternatively NAPA sells re-manufactured front calipers for $135 each. They specifically say they have been taken apart, cleaned and rebuilt. The picture on their website shows the LandRover and TRW monograms on the calipers. What does the extra $200 buy from A-B? Could the theirs be brand new at that price?
Thanks.
woodyNwoodinville
Member
JLG- The shudder happens all the time. Particularly noticeable at speed. My thought was the rotor is warped and throwing the shudder into the steering wheel while driving. Then feel it again (but differently) when braking to a stop. Could a worn/loose wheel bearing induce wobble in the rotor which would increase friction with the pads and lead to heat warping the rotor? Or is that spitting in the wind?
I did try driving it around with the ESC turned off, but that did not make any difference.
I have some time tomorrow to jack it up and see what it does.
Thanks,
I did try driving it around with the ESC turned off, but that did not make any difference.
I have some time tomorrow to jack it up and see what it does.
Thanks,
With weekly winter ski trips, the road salt definitely reduced the lifespan of my brake calipers. Especially the rears, that seemed to take turns dragging. I bought the AB brand calipers for $130 each:
Rear Brake Caliper (Part # SOB500042) For Various Range Rover Brake Systems
Fixing the brakes on your Range Rover? Here is the replacement passenger side rear brake caliper. Fits Range Rover Full Size and Sport, as well as LR3 and LR4.
www.roverparts.com
Range Rover Rear Brake Caliper (Part # SOB500052) - Left Side
Fixing the brakes on your Range Rover? Here is the replacement left rear brake caliper for the LR3, LR4, Range Rover Full Size and Sport.
www.roverparts.com
woodyNwoodinville
Member
Hey,
So I followed up on checking the temperatures of the rotors. Purchased an instant read IR thermometer. Started out with all the rotors cold at 46 degrees. Drove ~4 miles on mostly flat neighborhood roads at ~40mph. Didnt' really feel the shudder during the short drive, but felt something holding the rig back. Pulled over and checked the rotor temps. The left front was at ~90 degrees. The right front at a whopping 650 degrees! Both the backs only registered about 70 degrees. I limped home from there on backroads at 10 mph. Worried something might catch on fire.
If the issue is a master/booster problem as the shop guy said, shouldn't the diagonal left rear also be binding up and register a high temp? Is there any other way to test if the booster or master could be at fault?
After it cooled I put it up on jack stands. I checked for play in the wheel bearing as ryanjl suggested. I didn't feel any wiggle. But I could not budge the right front when I tried rotating it front and back even with the wheel/tire still on. Conversely the left front slides front and back easily.
So the right front is definitely frozen. I ordered rebuilt calipers plus new rotors and pads. I'm thinking to just have the fronts replaced and sleep well for the next 30K. Am I missing something that's going to slap me in the face?
So I followed up on checking the temperatures of the rotors. Purchased an instant read IR thermometer. Started out with all the rotors cold at 46 degrees. Drove ~4 miles on mostly flat neighborhood roads at ~40mph. Didnt' really feel the shudder during the short drive, but felt something holding the rig back. Pulled over and checked the rotor temps. The left front was at ~90 degrees. The right front at a whopping 650 degrees! Both the backs only registered about 70 degrees. I limped home from there on backroads at 10 mph. Worried something might catch on fire.
If the issue is a master/booster problem as the shop guy said, shouldn't the diagonal left rear also be binding up and register a high temp? Is there any other way to test if the booster or master could be at fault?
After it cooled I put it up on jack stands. I checked for play in the wheel bearing as ryanjl suggested. I didn't feel any wiggle. But I could not budge the right front when I tried rotating it front and back even with the wheel/tire still on. Conversely the left front slides front and back easily.
So the right front is definitely frozen. I ordered rebuilt calipers plus new rotors and pads. I'm thinking to just have the fronts replaced and sleep well for the next 30K. Am I missing something that's going to slap me in the face?
jlglr4
Full Access Member
Sounds like that should do it. I wouldn’t go back to that same shop though - I’ll bet that caliper was sticking before (when they installed new rotors) and they missed it or just didn’t fix it properly.
I would expect something other than a single stuck caliper if the master cylinder was going bad - two wheels seizing, or play/spongy brake pedal maybe. Wonder how they came to that conclusion. Might check your fluid to see what it looks like -see if it looks contaminated.
I would expect something other than a single stuck caliper if the master cylinder was going bad - two wheels seizing, or play/spongy brake pedal maybe. Wonder how they came to that conclusion. Might check your fluid to see what it looks like -see if it looks contaminated.
Waterboy-787
New Member
One last suggestion is to check that the appropriate procedure to electronically reset the brakes after changing the pads/rotors was completed? Not sure how its done, but needed an electronic tool and had to be completed by the agents. I changed 2 sets before resorting to the agents……
woodyNwoodinville
Member
Update:
The local NAPA shop was able to get me the parts overnight from their warehouse. NAPA "Adaptive One" polymer coated rotors, NAPA rebuilt calipers (one the TRW/Land Rover body), and the OEM TRW pads. Maybe not my preferreds, but "in stock" is golden.
With the parts in hand I pulled apart the right front brake assembly. The caliper was locked so tight on the disc that I had to use a pry bar to get it off. The top caliper pin was pretty well jammed with no wiggle. Took several hard tugs to get it out. The bottom pin had a little wiggle but still pretty stiff.
With the caliper hanging from a wire and still attached to the brake hose I put on a C-clamp and tried to push in the pistons. Even with reservoir cracked open, couldn't get the pistons to budge under the clamp. Then I tried again with the bleeder valve open. If the line were clogged or a problem at the booster/master, then an open bleeder ought to mitigate. Even with the bleeder open still could not get the pistons to budge. Took the caliper off and laid it on the bench without a banjo bolt installed. Still frozen.
Put on the new parts both sides and bled the front brakes. Had no issues running fluid into the caliper from the master. In fact it flowed by gravity. Test drove it and it feels good (in fact better than before this issue arose). All rotors at normal operating temperature (under 100 degrees) even after a freeway drive.
So seems obvious the mechanics claim of defective booster and master was bogus. Offering an $1800 brake system repair to replace a $150 rebuilt caliper. I recorded videos of my efforts to free the frozen caliper. Trying to decide what to do with them. Facebook, YouTube, Yelp?
Waterboy787: What's this about electronically resetting the brakes? Anyone else know of that? I have a Fox scanner device. Could I do it with that?
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and advise. Much appreciated!
The local NAPA shop was able to get me the parts overnight from their warehouse. NAPA "Adaptive One" polymer coated rotors, NAPA rebuilt calipers (one the TRW/Land Rover body), and the OEM TRW pads. Maybe not my preferreds, but "in stock" is golden.
With the parts in hand I pulled apart the right front brake assembly. The caliper was locked so tight on the disc that I had to use a pry bar to get it off. The top caliper pin was pretty well jammed with no wiggle. Took several hard tugs to get it out. The bottom pin had a little wiggle but still pretty stiff.
With the caliper hanging from a wire and still attached to the brake hose I put on a C-clamp and tried to push in the pistons. Even with reservoir cracked open, couldn't get the pistons to budge under the clamp. Then I tried again with the bleeder valve open. If the line were clogged or a problem at the booster/master, then an open bleeder ought to mitigate. Even with the bleeder open still could not get the pistons to budge. Took the caliper off and laid it on the bench without a banjo bolt installed. Still frozen.
Put on the new parts both sides and bled the front brakes. Had no issues running fluid into the caliper from the master. In fact it flowed by gravity. Test drove it and it feels good (in fact better than before this issue arose). All rotors at normal operating temperature (under 100 degrees) even after a freeway drive.
So seems obvious the mechanics claim of defective booster and master was bogus. Offering an $1800 brake system repair to replace a $150 rebuilt caliper. I recorded videos of my efforts to free the frozen caliper. Trying to decide what to do with them. Facebook, YouTube, Yelp?
Waterboy787: What's this about electronically resetting the brakes? Anyone else know of that? I have a Fox scanner device. Could I do it with that?
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and advise. Much appreciated!
