LR4s out there holding their value maybe more than just quite well

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RobRover88

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G'day ar077, You understand the value of diesel in real offroad conditions & towing. In the U.S. gas is cheap & available anywhere. When distances of 500+ miles are involved diesel is king. Unfortunately
most Americans have not driven a modern turbo-diesel in a real offroader like a D3,D4 or D5, so don't
appreciate what the torque can do. Revving a V8 gas engine in tough conditions to get the torque up to
where it's needed burns so much gas compared to a good diesel. My D4 TDV6 is very good on highways too, but not quite as good as the 3.0lt Italian-built VM Motori V6 turbo-diesel in my 2014 Chrysler 300.
That motor was never available in the 300 in the 'States unfortunately (I don't think) but is also used here
in Jeep Grand Cherokee, RAM 1500 & Maserati 4-door sedans & Maserati Levante SUV. I get 47mpg (U.S.)
between Sydney & Melbourne @ the speed limit & my 300 is over 2.5 tons loaded on those runs.
My 300 is an unnecessary Sunday cruiser, but I'm keeping my 2014 D4 as long as I'm around to drive it.
Are you still seeing our RAAF Super Hornets & F-35's @ Nellis AFB??
 

Nechaken

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Other way around here. Diesels struggle to warm the interior quick and keep it warm at -30. It can be done with various heater do-dads but it adds complexity.

I've always wondered how the Td6 in the D5 is in winter...
 

Snag_Devil

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I love the LR4, but the only thing that could make it better for me is if it had the RRS diesel. I've got an RRS Td6. It's a blast to drive. The fuel economy is way better and as a result, the range is 150-200 miles better. But, as awesome as the RRS is, it's the LR4 that I'm pretty sure I'll still have 10 years from now.
 

ryanjl

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Wish my LR4 had the Td6 as well.

From speaking to the service guys at my local Land Rover dealer, it's the engine they'd recommend if you wanted the most trouble-free experience. The only caveat is that they said to make sure to drive them on the highway regularly because of the emissions stuff.
 

manoftaste

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Wow, that says something. And certainly says something for the feedback to the new Defender as well which does not look that bad IMHO (thanks to going back to the idea of graceful/tasteful/minimalist design roots of LR), but sadly also is a good example of missing the mark on major and key fronts, indicating yet again this unfortunate, overbearing, sales-only driven, corporate interference in the engineering/design process.

If LR had a CEO today who actually was there because they loved and understood the adventurous and outdoorsy lifestyle themself that the brand once inspired, promised, and offered, we'd see the result at least in one or two of LR products, while the rest of the product lineup drawing technology from these two core LR' James Bond DNA products. And then the rest of the lineup could/would also explore and take advantage of other soccer mom/fads/trends/26" rims/0.5" sidewall type of LA urban/nightclub-"Look, Ive gotta $225k Autobiography with cow hide from LR' own farms here" type of markets purely for new business development/opportunities and sustainability.

Heck if LR even had a minivan option (which actually they do now in the form of D5 :)) with proper marketing, the typical minivan buyer would easily consider it to de-stigmatize this category/class thinking that its an LR brand which represents adventure/outdoors type lifestyle (so I may not look as boring driving it and here is my way to fight the modern pop culture) and therefore also must be drawing tech (TR, AWD and such) from their main and rock solid 4x4 models.

But again, it all trickles down from the top, period.

So when a CEO makes a decision to strip the dealerships off their offroad courses (a unique LR sales experience causing an oblivious to the brand/outdoors lifestyle, Wall Street business professional friend of mine to fall in love with it and purchase an LR3 just cuz I had taken him along with me to my LR3 test drive), that alone says more than plenty about where this CEO is coming from and where he/she wants to take the brand.

This friend of mine did not even test-drive the truck that day, he just sat in the second row of the demo LR3 while the sales guide took us thru the offroad course.

After the test drive, first I bought my 06 LR3 and then he bought his. And we both had, and still have, absolutely nothing to do with offroading, at least the way some of you guys do it here :)

Thats how powerful the offroad course experience was for him, and I am sure could have been for others if the LR beancounters had paid a little more attention to marketing this experience vs forcing the engineering/design team to focus on the soccer mom needs and market fads.

No matter what fancy names and reasonings LR comes up with to advertise its new D7x structural architecture for the Defender as some of really modern way of thinking or direction, for me its quite simple: Laws of physics. Nuff said.

Until LR comes up with a way to control, defy and negate gravity, momentum, and kinetic energy, chances of which are quite on the side of not happening anytime in the near future, no LR electronic techno wizardry can convince me to prefer the D7x (or the D8000U or whatever fancy marketing speak the beancounters come up with for the next greatest LR aluminum monocoque) over an IBF, for both strength and towing with safety reasons.

I plan to in the future (a trailer and/or a boat) and currently have practically zero towing experience with having towed only about 1300 to 1400 pounds of a U-Haul trailer once, and even with that one time little towing experience, I can already tell you that I would not want to tow with anything lighter in weight than an LR3/4.
 
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manoftaste

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Also, the D7x should have been the name for the improved/advanced version of IBF. And the IBF, an LR' own patented tech which is currently sitting on their shelf collecting dust, should have been thee platform for the new Defender, with the proper marketing talking about its merits and advantages.

With it LR here had a clear opportunity to earn the credit and reputation for introducing the world to a third and brand new chassis/platform category/classification. The brand could have named it cleverly, something like LRF (Land Rover Frame) or LRC (Land Rover Chassis), etc. And that would have become the new industry standard for a world class modern 4x4 striving to be equally at home both on and off road.

Just like the TR, competitors would have then be forced to adopt this new class of chassis, and then you could have had the reviewers/pundits describing the platform of a new LC or Jeep' top tier modern 4x4 off roader, etc by mentioning that "its based on an LRF platform...." etc.

LRF (or another clever name) could have easily become the third type of platform classification in the existing list of platforms that currently include the two, the Body on frame and the Monocoque/Unibody.

Thats how you innovate and become the industry standard, and not by catering to fads and following the trends just to be able to sell like a cheap salesman.

If I were at the helm, I'd have advertised/marketed the hell out of TR and IBF cuz I would have known that my brand has introduced this tech to the world so lets keep owning it by letting the buyers/market know that no matter what mercedes, audi, or the Lexus/toyota does, it will never be the proprietary TR tech and that it will never supersede/surpass LR' TR.

And there would have been many ways to do that.

"Introducing the new LR4/Defender, with the world' most advanced TR4 technology and the world' most advanced and sophisticated, class creating chassis architecture, the LRF, offering uncompromising standards and levels of cabin safety, a unique driving experience, isolated cabin comfort, and peace of mind for your precious cargo."

"And no matter where the journey takes you, whats the weather like, and however long it takes to get there, with our TR4 and LRF technologies, you and your friends/family will arrive at the destination hoping for the journey to begin again."

Then you'd introduce/market the successive versions (TR2, 3, 4, etc), which I think they have just started doing as I saw one LR TV ad recently, mentioning the TR only after sixteen years of its introduction. A bit too late, LR, but its never too late :) Get to know your own technologies first, LR brass.

Maybe the prod specialist who I had an hour+ long sit down discussion with inside the booth at the LA auto show a couple of years ago really took those notes that he was jotting down during the meeting to their beancounters. Told him that the acronym TR should have really become synonymous by now with the word "Safety" for the potential/existing customer, specially for your beloved soccer mom crowd, with the sales personnel at the dealerships properly trained about it and how to educate and convince the buyer.

Again, the key thing here is that as in charge of the ship, when you believe in your own product, actually are passionate about it and therefore have a clear and better understanding of how is it that what you have is far superior than the rest, then you actually put a serious effort in not only introducing it to the potential customer but also in educating them about it thru your ad campaigns.

You work with your commissioned ad agency by first telling them about what you got, so the clever minds at the ad agency can come up with ways to introduce/educate the market. But if the CEO themself does not have a clue with an IBF is, not the best ad agency on the planet could be of any good here. Thats what has been the case with LR3/4 ad campaigns.

Have you even seen the Apple videos whenever they introduce a new version of their iPhone or a new Mac Pro or laptop? You can just tell by watching their videos that passion about what they do thrives at that brand.

I'd have kept at least one product in the lineup free and far away both from the fads/trends and specially from my beancounters. Those products would have solely been for my engineers to have fun with, with their re-ignited innovative imaginations, and for my lead designers to introduce back the lost grace and class into this LR product.

As for the rest of the four or five products in the lineup, I'd have let my beancounters loose on them, that go ahead, have a field day with these and do whatever the hell you wanna do with these four products to make LR money. Add the 30 inch rims to these if you'd like, make the platform out of the tincans if you'd like to make em lighter for the happiness and well being of the review pundits, bring the belt line up to two inches of the roofline if you' like to make em look "fast" for your recently traditional $500k median target market. Go ahead, make these four CUVs look like a boat at the rear end if you'd like with their tapering at rear rooflines and bowing sides. As long as the end result is money coming in, go ahead mess around and experiment all you want to satisfy the hungry short lived trends, fads, and soccer moms' needs, however short lived they maybe.

Go ahead and design built-in obsolescence in the visual design itself and in the parts for that millionaire market of yours wanting to switch vehicles every two years and the dealerships' service depts, but do not enter the design and engineering departments when the sign is up that says:

"Innovation in progress. No beancounters allowed, please."

I'd not let these bean counters go near the engineering/design team when they would be working on that one brand' reputation related, LR3/4 type, true LR' James Bond DNA product. And this is where the real innovation would take birth, as it did with LR3. And the innovation born here would then trickle down to the rest of the lineup, either in its pure form or in the stripped down and diluted versions with the fancy names for business opportunities.

But again, you need someone in charge who actually understands what they have got at hand, have the slightest level of interest in their own product, and actually lives at least part of the lifestyle that they are trying to offer to you as a customer. Or else, you and I will keep seeing the convex style, shiny, glossy, glowy and glittery 22 inch rims with 1 inch of sidewalls and we will keep struggling and scrambling for aftermarket solutions in an effort to simply be able to take these LR products "Above & Beyond" as advertised, promised, and what we actually purchased them for.
 
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Troy A

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Also, the DX7 should have been the name for the improved/advanced version of IBF. And the IBF, an LR' own patented tech which is currently sitting on their shelf collecting dust, should have been thee platform for the new Defender, with proper marketing talking about its merits and advantages.

With it LR here had a clear opportunity to start a third and brand new chassis/platform category/classification. The brand could have named it cleverly, something like LRF (Land Rover Frame) or LRC (Land Rover Chassis), etc. And that would have become the new industry standard for the modern 4x4 which is equally at home both on and off road.

Just like the TR, this new class of chassis would have then been adopted by other manufacturers, and then you could have had the reviewers/pundits describing the platform of a new LC or Jeep' top tier 4x4 off roader by mentioning that "its based on an LRF chassis.." etc.

Thats how you innovate and become the industry standard, and not by catering to fads and trends.

If I were at the helm, I'd have advertised/marketed the hell out of TR cuz I would have known that my brand has introduced this tech to the world so lets keep owning it by letting the buyers/market know that no matter what mercedes, audi, or the toyota does, it will never be the proprietary TR tech and that it will never supercede LR' TR.

Then you'd introduce/market the successive versions (TR2, 3, 4, etc), which I think they have just started doing as I saw one LR TV ad recently, mentioning the TR after sixteen years of its introduction.

Maybe the prod specialist who I had an hour+ long sit down discussion with inside the booth at the LA auto show a couple of years ago really took those notes that he was jotting down during the meeting to their beancounters. Told him that the acronym TR should have really become synonymous by now with the word "Safety" for the potential/existing customer.

"Introducing the new Defender/LR4, with the world' most advanced TR4 technology and the world' most advanced and sophisticated chassis architecture, the LRF, offering uncompromising standard and level of safety, unique driving experience, comfort, and peace of mind for your precious cargo, no matter where the journey takes you."

But again, you need someone in charge who actually understands what they have got at hand, have the slightest level of interest in their own product, and actually lives at least part of the lifestyle that they are trying to offer to you as a customer. Or else, you and I will keep seeing the convex style, shiny and glossy 22 inch rims with 1 inch of sidewalls and we will keep struggling and scrambling for aftermarket solutions in an effort to take these LR products "Above & Beyond" as promised and that we purchased them for.
Ya, nobody at Tata cares about any of this. But I'm sure that this messaging works 100% for the Ineos team at this point. I don't know why we all (me included) expect LR to be anything other than it is - a gigantic Indian/Chinese owned corporation that owns a low-volume luxury brand and has found greater success year after year by leaving their tradition behind and making the vehicles prettier and putting bigger wheels and lower profile tires on them. All of us who yearn for a rebirth should probably just grieve in our beers and let it go.


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PaulLR3

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All of us who yearn for a rebirth should probably just grieve in our beers and let it go.

Exactly. As much as I love my LR4 I had to accept that it will not last forever. When I drive my wife's LR4 with 32K miles I know that mine is getting tired. Hers simply rides smoother and absorbs bumps and potholes better, corners better, shifts better, engine is quieter at idle, driver seat doesn't creak with every move, etc.

I spent over an hour test driving a Defender and ordered one. I know it's not an LR4 and I accept that. But after the test drive, IMHO, Land Rover got it right. Now let me go put on my helmet and fire suit for all backlash to come. :)
 

Troy A

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Exactly. As much as I love my LR4 I had to accept that it will not last forever. When I drive my wife's LR4 with 32K miles I know that mine is getting tired. Hers simply rides smoother and absorbs bumps and potholes better, corners better, shifts better, engine is quieter at idle, driver seat doesn't creak with every move, etc.

I spent over an hour test driving a Defender and ordered one. I know it's not an LR4 and I accept that. But after the test drive, IMHO, Land Rover got it right. Now let me go put on my helmet and fire suit for all backlash to come. :)
I’ve said it elsewhere. I’m really excited for you. Hope we still see you here in this forum but I’m already stalking you in the other one to hear how it goes! :) I look forward to being the third buyer of your Defender in about...8 years!


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CincyRovers

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Exactly. As much as I love my LR4 I had to accept that it will not last forever. When I drive my wife's LR4 with 32K miles I know that mine is getting tired. Hers simply rides smoother and absorbs bumps and potholes better, corners better, shifts better, engine is quieter at idle, driver seat doesn't creak with every move, etc.

I spent over an hour test driving a Defender and ordered one. I know it's not an LR4 and I accept that. But after the test drive, IMHO, Land Rover got it right. Now let me go put on my helmet and fire suit for all backlash to come. :)

Congrats on your order! My 110 S is scheduled to arrive in February. What spec did you go for?
 

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