LR4s out there holding their value maybe more than just quite well

[LB Bill]

But after the test drive, IMHO, Land Rover got it right. Now let me go put on my helmet and fire suit for all backlash to come.

I also love my LR4, BUT, IMHO, when you add it all up, and adjust expectations to be realistic, I think you are correct about the new Defender. Congrats! I think you will love it as well, and I look forward to your review and opinions once it's in your driveway!....(and some pic's).

 

[manoftaste]

Now let me go put on my helmet and fire suit for all backlash to come.

Haha

 

[manoftaste]

I look forward to being the third buyer of your Defender in about...8 years!

Yeah I think i maybe sitting this one out too like I did with D5. Thats why I have un-daily'd mine to stretch out the trouble free duty duration and have only been using it for the purpose i bought it for.

Waiting out to see how things go at LR and whats next.

 

[manoftaste]

Ya, nobody at Tata cares about any of this.... All of us who yearn for a rebirth should probably just grieve in our beers and let it go.

Just from my own personal experience of interaction with LR and from what I have gathered and known, LR, not LRNA or Tata, does actually care quite a bit. NA is a huge/major market for them all around. And from what I have heard, specially after D5, Tata has not been interfering with LR that much.

Its hard sometimes for a brand to get the real sense of what the customer wants, specially when most of us dont really have the time to communicate end user experience and expectations to the manufacturer in any active way. And if we do communicate, its usually in the form of reaction to an already revealed product and by that time its usually too late in the process for the manufacturer to go back to the drawing board for mods or any type of rethinking.

Defender is quite a bold step in terms of design for LR amid the current style trends/fads of unisex forms/shapes (the reason entire line of cars parked on a block looks the same today, varying sized eggs on four wheels).

A compact to midsize CUV today has to appeal to a much broader market, from 25 year old single urban woman to a 50+ year old suburb family man, two completely different and contrasting ends consisting of varying social needs and human behavior, much of which is driven by age specific modern day pop culture and trends. And thats a quite a bit of a spectrum to cover with one model. And thats the primary reason of some of the most hideous looking, tasteless and fugly designs you see on the market today, forcing you to wonder what the heck the lead designer was thinking when they came up with it.

To me Defender is really a great step for LR in the right direction and I sincerely hope that they do well with it. They have tried to address quite a few things with that model with whatever info they had gathered via whatever channels as far as what the customer is asking for.

The moment I reach for my pocket for that 70k+, I have Tata' attention instantly and their business now becomes my business, and to Tata, my business becomes theirs. Its always been a two way street, and very much more so in the year, time and era we currently live in.

Like any other business on this planet, manufacturers do not design/produce stuff for the customers' well being as their focal point. They are simply running a business which is one hundred percent dependent on us bringing our business ($70k+ each) to them. So as a customer you have absolute control over what you'd like to see happen in a product that you are paying that much dough for. And the manufacturers realize that or they will either be out of business pretty quickly or will not be in that business at all. They just need to be made aware of things from the customers' side which is the customer' responsibility.

But, as a paying customer, if you dont communicate to the manufacturer what it is exactlyy that you want in their product(s) which they are actually building for you and are solely depending on your money in order to be profitable, you instantly become an investing but a passive business partner, not only leaving all the decision making to your partner on your behalf, but also providing your business partner, the manufacturer, the opportunity to both set and drive the trends/fads that are better suited for their bottom lines and profitability and not for your needs and/or requirements. And then as a result, for your $80k investment in LR, you just get whatever it is that you get.

 

[Troy A]

Just from my own personal experience of interaction with LR and from what I have gathered and known, LR, not LRNA or Tata, does actually care quite a bit. NA is a huge/major market for them all around. And from what I have heard, specially after D5, Tata has not been interfering with LR that much.

Its hard sometimes for a brand to get the real sense of what the customer wants, specially when most of us dont really have the time to communicate end user experience and expectations to the manufacturer in any active way. And if we do communicate, its usually in the form of reaction to an already revealed product and by that time its usually too late in the process for the manufacturer to go back to the drawing board for mods or any type of rethinking.

Defender is quite a bold step in terms of design for LR amid the current style trends/fads of unisex forms/shapes (the reason entire line of cars parked on a block looks the same today, varying sized eggs on four wheels).

A compact to midsize CUV today has to appeal to a much broader market, from 25 year old single urban woman to a 50+ year old suburb family man, two completely different and contrasting ends consisting of varying social needs and human behavior, much of which is driven by age specific modern day pop culture and trends. And thats a quite a bit of a spectrum to cover with one model. And thats the primary reason of some of the most hideous looking, tasteless and fugly designs you see on the market today, forcing you to wonder what the heck the lead designer was thinking when they came up with it.

To me Defender is really a great step for LR in the right direction and I sincerely hope that they do well with it. They have tried to address quite a few things with that model with whatever info they had gathered via whatever channels as far as what the customer is asking for.

The moment I reach for my pocket for that 70k+, I have Tata' attention instantly and their business now becomes my business, and to Tata, my business becomes theirs. Its always been a two way street, and very much more so in the year, time and era we currently live in.

Like any other business on this planet, manufacturers do not design/produce stuff for the customers' well being as their focal point. They are simply running a business which is one hundred percent dependent on us bringing our business ($70k+ each) to them. So as a customer you have absolute control over what you'd like to see happen in a product that you are paying that much dough for. And the manufacturers realize that or they will either be out of business pretty quickly or will not be in that business at all. They just need to be made aware of things from the customers' side which is the customer' responsibility.

But, as a paying customer, if you dont communicate to the manufacturer what it is exactlyy that you want in their product(s) which they are actually building for you and are solely depending on your money in order to be profitable, you instantly become an investing but a passive business partner, not only leaving all the decision making to your partner on your behalf, but also providing your business partner, the manufacturer, the opportunity to both set and drive the trends/fads that are better suited for their bottom lines and profitability and not for your needs and/or requirements. And then as a result, for your $80k investment in LR, you just get whatever it is that you get.

I just always come back to their units shipped. From 2011 to 2018 - 7 straight years of global units shipped growth by leaving history behind and making prettier vehicles with bigger wheels. 2020 is low for obvious reasons. Not sure what happened in 2019. But the company regardless of owner is getting market signals that McGovern is leading them down the right track with his decisions so we'll see more luxury, (even bigger???) wheels, and more water under the bridge from the "good old days" of Camel Trophy Discos and more of McGovern's "screw the traditionalists - they don't pay the bills but I've given a design nod with the safari windows and the check plate that you actually can't stand on because it's plastic" because it's working. I'm conflicted. I love my LR4, am not a fan of the D5 or any of the RR series but do quite like the Defender (feels like the real D5 or maybe D6.) I think they've served both masters admirably well for a small manufacturer. Pay respect to the past without being hamstrung by the past and also get as many new customers as possible to keep paying the bills. My earlier point was that if we think that LR "should" do this or that (like build a Grenadier) that ship has sailed. They're on a new path and people can either join it or leave it. I am keeping my LR4 as long as possible and am considering the Defender once they work out the bugs. But I have no love for the company - like Andrew St. Pierre White, I think brand loyalty is dumb. Doesn't stop me from really loving having my 2013 5.0 V8 LR4 which I think is bloody fantastic.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[PaulLR3]

Congrats on your order! My 110 S is scheduled to arrive in February. What spec did you go for?

Congrats to you as well CincyRovers. Mine supposedly arrives in late February. I went with a P400 110, X-Dynamic HSE, regular and advanced offroad packs, cold climate pack, heated rear seats for the kids, extra rear AC for the dog, better radio for me and a few accessories including a tow hitch and onboard air compressor.

 

[CincyRovers]

Congrats to you as well CincyRovers. Mine supposedly arrives in late February. I went with a P400 110, X-Dynamic HSE, regular and advanced offroad packs, cold climate pack, heated rear seats for the kids, extra rear AC for the dog, better radio for me and a few accessories including a tow hitch and onboard air compressor.

Nice, what color did you go for? Mine is the 110 S P300 in Pangea Green and the Acorn interior with the Advanced Off-Road Capability pack, Off-Road pack, Comfort and Convenience pack, (only to get the Meridian audio, I could care less about the ambient lighting and center console fridge.) heated front seats, Cold Climate pack, Rough-cut walnut trim, the panoramic moonroof, the premium LED headlights with fog lights, and the 19" six-spoke silver wheels.

 

[mpinco]

I just always come back to their units shipped. From 2011 to 2018 - 7 straight years of global units shipped growth by leaving history behind and making prettier vehicles with bigger wheels. 2020 is low for obvious reasons. Not sure what happened in 2019. But the company regardless of owner is getting market signals that McGovern is leading them down the right track with his decisions so we'll see more luxury, (even bigger???) wheels, and more water under the bridge from the "good old days" of Camel Trophy Discos and more of McGovern's "screw the traditionalists - they don't pay the bills but I've given a design nod with the safari windows and the check plate that you actually can't stand on because it's plastic" because it's working. I'm conflicted. I love my LR4, am not a fan of the D5 or any of the RR series but do quite like the Defender (feels like the real D5 or maybe D6.) I think they've served both masters admirably well for a small manufacturer. Pay respect to the past without being hamstrung by the past and also get as many new customers as possible to keep paying the bills. My earlier point was that if we think that LR "should" do this or that (like build a Grenadier) that ship has sailed. They're on a new path and people can either join it or leave it. I am keeping my LR4 as long as possible and am considering the Defender once they work out the bugs. But I have no love for the company - like Andrew St. Pierre White, I think brand loyalty is dumb. Doesn't stop me from really loving having my 2013 5.0 V8 LR4 which I think is bloody fantastic.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The higher volumes were built with Evoque's, Velar's and Disco Sports. JLR's plan was to challenge BMW with models and manufacturing. In the end JLR lost its character, sales leveled off but cost continued to rise. By 2019 they were taking billion dollar losses. Solution? Fire the CEO and re-org.

The future? More "Evoque"'s as JLR moves to smaller 2WD platforms.

McGovern to JLR, Massimo Frascella now LR design chief.

https://autodesignmagazine.com/en/2...-director-as-mcgovern-leads-jlr-group-design/

His promotion is part of a design reorganization of the Jaguar Land Rover group that sees Gerry McGovern assuming the position of Chief Creative Officer for the British group. To McGovern, who had led Land Rover design until October, now report two brand design directors: Julian Thomson for Jaguar and Massimo Frascella for Land Rover......

Profile: Massimo Frascella

 

[jjvd21]

My 16 year old D3 (assembled July 2004) is showing its age and the Mrs and I started evaluating “replacement” options 3 months ago. We test drove a D5, X7, Q7, Merc, etc. since we know the D3 well we didn’t test drive a D4. After much dialogue we decided the best all around package was the D4. We picked up a 2016 Landmark with 49K last week after a month of searching. I would never have thought I’d prefer a vehicle with near 50k miles over a more modern or brand new SUV but we do. We wanted to like the D5 but the 2nd row seats are an afterthought and the rear styling? We couldn’t do it. Nothing like the “command driving position” of the D3/D4 - the D5 felt more like my RRS. One thing to note - D4 prices seem to be creeping up. During my research for a D4 I saw 3 weekly price increases on vehicles I was considering.

 

[manoftaste]

My 16 year old D3 (assembled July 2004)I would never have thought I’d prefer a vehicle with near 50k miles over a more modern or brand new SUV but we do. We wanted to like the D5 but the 2nd row seats are an afterthought and the rear styling? We couldn’t do it. Nothing like the “command driving position” of the D3/D4 - the D5 felt more like my RRS. One thing to note - D4 prices seem to be creeping up. During my research for a D4 I saw 3 weekly price increases on vehicles I was considering.

Very interesting that your demand and requirements for the former, signature LR driving experience (command view driving position, stadium seating, etc) and functionality drove you to opt for a used vehicle, offering those traits, over a brand new one. And maybe thats one of the reasons why LR4s are holding their value really well even after the Defender option becoming available as a replacement option.

I remember very well that after owning a 1995 Montero/Pajero SR/Exceed I visited my local Mitsubishi dealership to look at the brand new totally redesigned Montero with significant design/engineering changes/updates (including the new independent suspension setup on all four corners) as a possible replacement for my Montero. But I came back quite disappointed after witnessing that Mitsu had gotten rid of the command view driving position/cockpit style dashboard and the stadium seating, the three key features that brought me to the Montero/Pajero in the first place along with its beautiful exterior/interior design job.

I decided to not purchase the new Montero and moved on to other options and then to LR3 when it splashed on the scene.