LR5 Release Updates?

[mbw]

Due to my concerns about towing and tongue weight confusion on the LR4, I immediately went to the towing section of this manual. Either they haven't updated all of the material or I am missing something or they are really missing something!

In the Towing Weights Section: "Maximum Permissible Towing Weightss"

• Trailer with brakes. 6,614 lbs
• "Unrestricted" Trailer Tongue Weight. 331 lbs. (That's what it says.)
• "Restricted" Trailer Tongue Weidht. 550 lbs. They have the following note associated with "restricted": For every pound above 331 lbs (150 kg) added to the trailer tongue weight, the same weight must be removed from the vehicle's payload.

And then there is this statement: "The trailer's tongue weight must be at least a minimum of 4% of the trailer's gross weight."

4%? At least here in the US the recommended practice is 10-12%.

This certainly doesn't square with what we saw in the marketing literature and seems to be a significant step backwards.

Well, it is unibody. I would expect an lr4 to be a better tow rig based on inherent rigidity and weight.

 

[catman]

It also says this for towing:

When towing a trailer weighing more than 4 409 lb (2 000 kg), a smoother pull away from standstill is achieved with the transfer case engaged in low range. Change to high range when the vehicle is moving. See SELECTING HIGH AND LOW RANGE.


CAUTION
To avoid overheating the transmission, it is not advisable to tow heavy trailer loads at speeds of less than 21 mph (32 km/h) in high range. Select low range instead.
​

Of course the low-range itself is an option now, so if you pick one up without it, I guess towing heavier loads is a no-no. But I am sure someone will end up doing it and burning up a transmission in the process! I wonder if it would be covered under warranty....

​

 

[colorover]

Due to my concerns about towing and tongue weight confusion on the LR4, I immediately went to the towing section of this manual. Either they haven't updated all of the material or I am missing something or they are really missing something!

In the Towing Weights Section: "Maximum Permissible Towing Weightss"

• Trailer with brakes. 6,614 lbs
• "Unrestricted" Trailer Tongue Weight. 331 lbs. (That's what it says.)
• "Restricted" Trailer Tongue Weidht. 550 lbs. They have the following note associated with "restricted": For every pound above 331 lbs (150 kg) added to the trailer tongue weight, the same weight must be removed from the vehicle's payload.

And then there is this statement: "The trailer's tongue weight must be at least a minimum of 4% of the trailer's gross weight."

4%? At least here in the US the recommended practice is 10-12%.

This certainly doesn't square with what we saw in the marketing literature and seems to be a significant step backwards.

Dan, isn't the issue that this set of specs for towing is due to the built in folding tow hook set up? I thought we wouldn't get that set up for NA Discos.

 

[mpinco]

Well if the specs Dan highlighted are accurate, the LR5 is eliminated as a tow vehicle. My 19' Keystone is at or over those LR5 specs.

And what is with using low range for off the line. Really?

 

[dc_v01]

Either they haven't updated all of the material or I am missing something or they are really missing something!

I do think you are missing something. Most of the specs you quoted are improvements, actually, but you're treating them wrong. But the spec that is a downgrade I do think may be a documentation issue - I know you're very sensitive to these, I think a documentation issue also caused you to buy a new vehicle in the first place!

Trailer with brakes. 6,614 lbs

This is a downgrade, but also happens to be 3000 kg. I suspect this may be a documentation issue for different markets. It could also be a limitation of the ******* style tow ball that was illustrated earlier - it's the only style of tow ball I've seen on non-commercial vehicles in Europe, for instance. They don't seem to use hitch receivers like we do here. I don't see how it's rated even 3000 kg, however.

• "Unrestricted" Trailer Tongue Weight. 331 lbs. (That's what it says.)
• "Restricted" Trailer Tongue Weidht. 550 lbs. They have the following note associated with "restricted": For every pound above 331 lbs (150 kg) added to the trailer tongue weight, the same weight must be removed from the vehicle's payload.

This is an upgrade over most vehicles. NORMALLY you ALWAYS need to subtract ALL the trailer tongue weight from the payload. This is weight the vehicle is carrying. For some reason they are giving you a BONUS increase in load capacity of 331 lbs when towing, which must be due to some electronics/suspension wizardry, not sure how, but it's a nice add-on.

That's for the restricted vs. unrestricted. Now, if it's the 550lbs you're complaining about, I thought you believe that was for the previous LR4 anyway, so the spec would just be the same. Since it's 250kg, I still think it may be a limitation of the non-NA spec models, probably those ******* hitches, and if the hitch receiver is labeled 770lbs I would be comfortable with that.

And then there is this statement: "The trailer's tongue weight must be at least a minimum of 4% of the trailer's gross weight."

4%? At least here in the US the recommended practice is 10-12%.

For boat trailers, not travel trailers, I usually see 7-10% as the recommended practice. I've seen some brake controllers say 5% is ok with their functionality. But that's the point - lower is BETTER. It means the vehicle has sufficient stability control and braking systems to handle a trailer that is less stable. Tongue weight adds traction to the rear tires, necessary for some vehicles, and also means the center of gravity (Cg) of the trailer is farther forward, more between the trailer tires and the tow vehicle tires. This is more stable. As the Cg moves back toward the trailer tires the trailer can oscillate faster, and is less stable. If you have a crappy tow vehicle you may need to increase the tongue weight up past 15% to make it stable and less prone to sway. But with their electronic gizmos, LR is telling you that it's possible to drop the tongue weight all the way down to 4% and still remain in control. It's a MINIMUM. And an improvement over most vehicles. That said, I still would not recommend towing with the tongue weight that low, if possible I'd adjust the trailer to increase it.

Well if the specs Dan highlighted are accurate, the LR5 is eliminated as a tow vehicle. My 19' Keystone is at or over those LR5 specs.

Is your trailer really over 6614 lbs? Or the tongue weight over 550? Either sound like a lot for a 19' trailer, but I'm used to boats.

 

[umbertob]

First hands-on reviews are starting to trickle in (based on a prototype):
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/land-rover/land-rover-discovery-5-prototype-2017-review/
Car Magazine:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/land-rover/land-rover-discovery-5-prototype-2017-review/

Motor Trend:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/land...2017-land-rover-discovery-first-drive-review/

 

[colorover]

C&D first test, same off-road only as the others.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-land-rover-discovery-prototype-drive-review

 

[toddjb122]

...
And then there is this statement: "The trailer's tongue weight must be at least a minimum of 4% of the trailer's gross weight."

4%? At least here in the US the recommended practice is 10-12%.

This certainly doesn't square with what we saw in the marketing literature and seems to be a significant step backwards.

Maybe for a real hitch it's the 10-12% but for the auto-deploy ***** looking hitch, it's 4%? Dunno....

 

[dc_v01]

Maybe for a real hitch it's the 10-12% but for the auto-deploy ***** looking hitch, it's 4%? Dunno....

No, read what I wrote above. 4% is BETTER than 10-12%. We're not talking load capacity, it's the percentage of the load that needs to be on the vehicle for stability. It's a minimum, if you can run 4% you could also run 10-12% just as well, but not the opposite. No way I can believe the ***** hitch is better than the conventional hitch.

 

[danrhiggins]

Well, in the research on tow vehicles, trailer hitches, etc. where there are a lot of different articles on hitch weight, I have never heard that having a good tow vehicle means you can go lighter on the hitch weight. I also have never read that one way to compensate for a poor tow vehicle is to increase tow weight.

As for being sensitive to documentation - yes I am. Especially when I went to my dealership repeatedly and they went to LRNA and then answer was always consistent with the documentation (max hitch weight 556 lbs). I know that someone did finally get a different answer from LRNA but they never changed their documentation. One could certainly argue that they were merely protecting their legal butts. And yes, this lack of commitment on the part of LRNA led me to move to a different tow vehicle. And probably not just me. Documentation matters. If it is wrong and costing you sales, then you send a bulletin out to the dealers with a formal statement. Their unwillingness to do so was as bad as the original documentation.

As for what I read in the new (and potentially buggy) owners manual for the Discovery, it could be a mistake. If so, they need to fix it or clarify the meaning - if they care.