Traction/Stability control on snow and ice?

[R Hermann]

I did a quick search but did not see anything to answer my question...

Watching a video of a comparison between the LR4 and Land Cruiser in snow I noticed the LR4 was shown getting sideways in corners and the L/C was not. It may have been the driving technique but it may have been the vehicle stability system in the Toyota is better.

Specifically, how does the LR4 do in "typical" crummy weather suburban/country driving? Slippery roads, stop signs, corners, etc. Our X6 maintains composure quite well and I have to turn off the DSC to have "fun". How does the LR4 handle "stupid" actions like accelerating in a low traction corner or braking on ice? Does it stay straight/on track or get sideways?

Thanks

 

[iSurfvilano]

I did a quick search but did not see anything to answer my question...

Watching a video of a comparison between the LR4 and Land Cruiser in snow I noticed the LR4 was shown getting sideways in corners and the L/C was not. It may have been the driving technique but it may have been the vehicle stability system in the Toyota is better.

Specifically, how does the LR4 do in "typical" crummy weather suburban/country driving? Slippery roads, stop signs, corners, etc. Our X6 maintains composure quite well and I have to turn off the DSC to have "fun". How does the LR4 handle "stupid" actions like accelerating in a low traction corner or braking on ice? Does it stay straight/on track or get sideways?

Thanks

Short answer: That depends on the LR4 and if you are using the terrain response. I have driven a land cruiser and it cannot hold a candle to the LR4's terrain response, so you may be seeing video of a land cruiser using their a-trac system while the LR4 is not utilizing the terrain response.

Long answer: I can tell you that my experience with the single speed LR4 was different than that in my twin speed LR4. The single speed uses a torsen-c center differential that works differently than the center diff in the twin speed. While in the sand with the single speed (without any of the terrain response settings turned on) I could get sideways really easy before the traction control would fully kick in as well as the center diff. The single speed will lock (google torsen-c, it's complicated) when it reaches a certain RPM point and even then it will only lock to a torque split of 42:58 --- whereas the twin speed will lock

 

[R Hermann]

Thanks!
Here is the video and an example of the sliding is in the intro:

 

[mbw]

Snow mode does some neat things with throttle response and the diffs do lock up more easily in those conditions, especially when you take off from a stop. What makes the most difference though is just tires. And I find I just need snow tires to have this thing be reasonably safe in bad conditions. It is so much weight to deal with.

 

[R Hermann]

Quality tires make a significant difference, that is a good point. Snow tires don't make much sense for me where I am in southern Michigan. We get a few bad days spread out over the season but I don't want to sacrifice braking, handling, etc. for the other 130 days.

The various terrain modes have their utility but I am really more interested in the ability of the computers to keep things from going bad in any mode. It's the unexpected stuff that is of concern, not the days you know are bad.

Thanks

 

[iSurfvilano]

This video comparison may not be in the snow but this show's the difference between the two systems off road.

 

[mpinco]

The biggest variable is the driver and their judgement, or lack thereof. If your on snow and ice and can't 'hear' the road, your on black ice. I doubt any system can overcome the laws of physics. Second, tires. Factory tires suck in snow/ice. But they do provide high mpg for that brick you are driving.

Bottom line, slow down and listen. You will be amazed at what you will learn.

 

[roverman]

Quality tires make a significant difference, that is a good point. Snow tires don't make much sense for me where I am in southern Michigan. We get a few bad days spread out over the season but I don't want to sacrifice braking, handling, etc. for the other 130 days.

The various terrain modes have their utility but I am really more interested in the ability of the computers to keep things from going bad in any mode. It's the unexpected stuff that is of concern, not the days you know are bad.

Thanks

I’m in SE Michigan and have had snow tires in rovers for 20 years. Necessary? Not really. But awesome when needed and no real downside. The traction control system is pretty darn good. It will take almost all the fun out of a good snowstorm. But there is a point when it’s so slippery that all the traction control systems in the world won’t do the job. And that’s where the snow tires come in

 

[R Hermann]

I’m in SE Michigan and have had snow tires in rovers for 20 years. Necessary? Not really. But awesome when needed and no real downside. The traction control system is pretty darn good. It will take almost all the fun out of a good snowstorm. But there is a point when it’s so slippery that all the traction control systems in the world won’t do the job. And that’s where the snow tires come in

Thanks for the input. I grew up driving in Minnesota and lived in Texas long enough to experience black ice and oil-slick roads after rain, so I understand the importance of the driver and that is why I always buy the highest rated tires on TireRack.com. That said, I could step the back end out and hold it as long as I wanted on a mid-80's Z car but can not do that (without defeating DSC) on a modern BMW or even a Ford. Mash the gas all you want, even do the Scandinavian counter-turn thing, and it is still hard to get them to come around on you because the nannies intervene. And that is what I want a vehicle to do for my kids and wife when they are driving until (if) they become accomplished enough drivers.

In the video I posted, the LR4 rear end definitely steps out in the corners while the Toyota makes a slight move and then corrects. In normal mode, does the LR4 step out like that or did they turn off the DSC, etc. for video interest? If you have tried to do donuts in a snowy parking lot you can easily answer that question.

 

[roverman]

Donuts not so much but with the TC off (and maybe even put it in sand mode) and you can definitely have some fun power sliding. With the TC on you're not going to get sideways for more than a second before it shuts it down.