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Quijote

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Read this website.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/land-rover-lr4-sales-figures.html

LR generally sells some 6,500 LR4s a year in the US. They sold more in January 2014 than last year (and previous years for that matter). They might just be short of vehicles because they had a big January relative to past years. They will catch up, but I seriously doubt they'd cut sales in the US by almost half.

I see that data completely differently. Look at end year orders for years prior to 2013. The 2013 Q4 sales are MUCH lower as a result of the new model coming. There should be pent-up demand for the new, remodeled 2014.

So either they are limiting supply or people are disappointed about something on the 2014 model that has sales on par with prior year despite a very low prior Q4 and a refreshed model.
 

mbw

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Doesn't solihull kind of slow down for some period of time each year while they retool or get ready for new models, etc? Would that impact anything?
 

danrhiggins

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I heard from three different dealerships around the US that there was a backup on the engines. Only speculation as to why but all three felt is was because they were filling demand for the RRS or maybe the didn't plan accordingly. I can imagine that some people are on the fence about whether to jump now or wait to hear what the MY15 offers. And, finally, I think the messed up a bit and built a bunch of under-spec'd LR4s (no Heavy Duty option) and some of those may be sitting on lots. There are two on the floor at my dealership. One (Grey HSE w/ Vision and Almond interior) has been there for 6 weeks.
 

Matt

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I heard from three different dealerships around the US that there was a backup on the engines. Only speculation as to why but all three felt is was because they were filling demand for the RRS or maybe the didn't plan accordingly. I can imagine that some people are on the fence about whether to jump now or wait to hear what the MY15 offers. And, finally, I think the messed up a bit and built a bunch of under-spec'd LR4s (no Heavy Duty option) and some of those may be sitting on lots. There are two on the floor at my dealership. One (Grey HSE w/ Vision and Almond interior) has been there for 6 weeks.

I cancelled my 2014 order once I discovered the ECO crap button and the 9% reduction in HP without any effort to reduce the weight of the vehicle and having the Heavy Duty as an option rather than standard. I personally think LR missed the mark with 2014 LR4 model.

In fact I went to great lengths to find a 2013. I feel it is my duty as an American to drive an over sized, gas guzzling, urban assault vehicle and the 2014 is moving in the opposite direction.

So, in support of your response, I jumped off the fence.
 

epiclr4

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I cancelled my 2014 order once I discovered the ECO crap button and the 9% reduction in HP without any effort to reduce the weight of the vehicle and having the Heavy Duty as an option rather than standard. I personally think LR missed the mark with 2014 LR4 model.

In fact I went to great lengths to find a 2013. I feel it is my duty as an American to drive an over sized, gas guzzling, urban assault vehicle and the 2014 is moving in the opposite direction.

So, in support of your response, I jumped off the fence.

I understand people are harsh to the ECO button, it doesn't bother me at all, but everyone else I know finds it to just be an uncomfortable feeling.

Reduction in power isn't that bad as I have a 2014. Never got a chance to drive a 2013 or older but the power isn't bad at all and the 8 speed tranny with the paddles makes it quite fun to drive.

Heavy Duty has always been an option. Unless you are just referencing the transfer case removal. I guess it would just depend on if you wanted a full size spare or not. I struggle more than they give you a piece of junk doughnut tire as stock versus an option than the 2 speed transfer case. Why do they think putting a doughnut on an off-road truck is a good idea? :stupid:
 

Matt

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I understand people are harsh to the ECO button, it doesn't bother me at all, but everyone else I know finds it to just be an uncomfortable feeling.

Reduction in power isn't that bad as I have a 2014. Never got a chance to drive a 2013 or older but the power isn't bad at all and the 8 speed tranny with the paddles makes it quite fun to drive.

Heavy Duty has always been an option. Unless you are just referencing the transfer case removal. I guess it would just depend on if you wanted a full size spare or not. I struggle more than they give you a piece of junk doughnut tire as stock versus an option than the 2 speed transfer case. Why do they think putting a doughnut on an off-road truck is a good idea? :stupid:

Sorry, yes I was referring to the removal of the two speed transfer case. No more low range unless you get an upgrade.

It seems like I have heard no less than a thousand times that these LR4's never see dirt, and the changes are going more in the direction of a more urban use platform. Maybe the doughnut was an attempt at weight reduction. Time will tell.
 

Soda

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So there are always people complaining about the engine change on the boards here. Has anyone compared how the V8 makes power vs the SCV6 makes power? Yes, the SCV6 makes less HP and torque than the V8, but it has a pretty flat torque curve making max torque from 3500-5000 RPM. http://discovery.landrover.com/int/explore/specifications/scv6-petrol

Where does the V8 make max torque at? I assume it has a peak and doesn't have a flat curve. I'm just wondering if the two engines aren't closer in performance than most people seem think.
 

Matt

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So there are always people complaining about the engine change on the boards here. Has anyone compared how the V8 makes power vs the SCV6 makes power? Yes, the SCV6 makes less HP and torque than the V8, but it has a pretty flat torque curve making max torque from 3500-5000 RPM. http://discovery.landrover.com/int/explore/specifications/scv6-petrol

Where does the V8 make max torque at? I assume it has a peak and doesn't have a flat curve. I'm just wondering if the two engines aren't closer in performance than most people seem think.

Torque is the power to the wheels. It can be appreciated more when your vehicle is in some super thick mud and you need all four tires screaming and clawing their way out of the muck.

The bottom line is that he changes being made are moving away from of off road capabilities. That would be a fact based on the changes that have been made for 2014. I am not hating on the 2014, there are plenty of people that will be happy with it, I'm just not one of them. I had my chance to grab the 14 and chose not.
 

Soda

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Torque is the power to the wheels. It can be appreciated more when your vehicle is in some super thick mud and you need all four tires screaming and clawing their way out of the muck.

The bottom line is that he changes being made are moving away from of off road capabilities. That would be a fact based on the changes that have been made for 2014. I am not hating on the 2014, there are plenty of people that will be happy with it, I'm just not one of them. I had my chance to grab the 14 and chose not.

I don't think it is a fact that they are moving away from off-road capabilities at all. The 2014 is available with a lower-speed transfer case with the HD package. And the engine is being changed to improve a woeful gas milage rating.

As for the engines, since yesterday I've done some looking at the known stats. It would be great if Land Rover would publish actual torque curves for their engines, but they don't seem to. If they did then it would make the comparison a lot easier.

I know very well what torque does and how important it is when off-roading or towing heavy things. Forced induction engines (turbochargers and superchargers) tend to make more torque over more of the RPM range than normally aspirated engines (IE. the out-going V8) do.

For example: The AJ133 (V8) in 5.0 trim here in the US makes 375 hp at 6,500 RPM and 375 lb-ft of torque at 3,500 RPM. The new SCV6 makes 340 hp at 6,500 RPM and 332 lb-ft of torque between 3,500 and 5,000 RPM. That means that while the V8 tops out at 375 lb-ft of torque at 3,500 RPM that before 3,500 RPM and after 3,500 RPM it is making less. The SCV6 is making 332 lb-ft of torque at 3,500 RPM. It is making 332 lb-ft of torque at 4,000 RPM. It is making 332 lb-ft of torque at 4,500 RPM. It is making 332 lb-ft of torque at 5,000 RPM. Before 3,500 RPM it is making less. After 5,000 RPM it is making less.

While the V8 is making less RPM below 3,500 RPM, so is the SCV6. The V8 will probably have an edge in this lower RPM range compared to the SCV6. At 3,500 RPM, the V8 has the advantage for sure. It is making 375 lb-ft of torque while the SCV6 is only making 332 lb-ft of torque. After 3,500 RPM is where things even out. At 4,000 RPM we know the SCV6 is making 332 lb-ft of torque. We know the V8 is making less than 375 lb-ft of torque. It could be close to 332 lb-ft. It could also be less. Same thing at 4,500, and 5,000 RPM except that the likelihood of the V8 making less than 332 lb-ft of torque increases greatly as the RPMs go up. The V8 is dropping in torque while the SCV6 is making a steady 332 lb-ft.

So, while the V8 will have an advantage up until 3,500 RPM, the SCV6 at least matches the V8 over 3,500 RPM and likely surpasses it at higher RPMs. Useful, for instance if you are towing something like a boat or trailer at highway speeds. Yes, it gives up a torque disadvantage to the V8 at lower RPMs, but it's probably not significant enough to really harm off-road performance. When you add in the advantage it has in gas milage, then its value compared with the V8 becomes more apparent.

Essentially, they are both (on paper at least) pretty good engines. Both have their pros and cons vs. the other. The V8 has more torque in the low RPM range. The V6 has more torque in the mid to high RPM range and gets better gas mileage. I know that from my multiple test drives in the 2014 and from riding in one on my dealer's off-road course that the SCV6 is a very capable engine and it won't bother me at all when my 2014 arrives with the SCV6 instead of a V8.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that the 0-60 mph difference between the two engines is only 0.2 seconds. That is so minor in a vehicle this size and purpose.
 
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mbw

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Im mostly concerned about how its used day to day. And with the V8 im cruising around under 2000 rpm almost all the time. 40mph, is like 1800 rpm or something (I will take note when I take off this morning).

I doubt I really ever run it up to 3500 rpm. More cylinders means lower RPM in general.

I had a 3.5L V6 in my Infiniti and it was a fantastic motor (VQ35). Nice torque curve down low and was just very smooth. It was NA. ~300hp or something... it was great, but, even that mostly aluminum car was running 3k rpm most of the time on the highway in 5th gear. 3k rpm is not as quite or calm as 1800 rpm. It does make a difference.

Same with big trucks and tow vehicles, I've always loved the low rpm steady power delivery of a V8 (or V10!).

Its more than just numbers here, its the entire feel of the vehicle that is changed.
 

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