Your thoughts on the Ineos Grenadier?

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SkiWill

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I would actually argue that there is a solid market for the Grenadier. The Wrangler is terrific off road, but it's miserable as a utility vehicle. The Bronco is basically a Ford Wrangler. They have minuscule payload capacity, a joke of 3500 lb towing capacity, but they have big tires. Really big tires. And that's cool. Really cool bro. Have you seen how big my tires are? And I'm *******. And no doors.

Then the new Defender ended up being another variant of Discovery 5 since JLR seems to only build vehicles that compete with those in its own lineup. No wonder they're losing money.

After years of Jeeps, I finally came to the LR4 because I needed something that was off road worthy, had a decent tow rating, and sizable payload and was safe for a family, but not the titanic size of a Suburban.

If the Ineos has all of those features but with a real ladder frame and hypoid axles, it will effectively have no competitors in the US. The Jeep and Bronco are toys. Fun toys, but toys. If I load a family of 4 and a dog in a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon unlimited or Bronco, I have maybe 300 lbs for additions such as heavier winch bumper, winch, camping gear, fuel, etc. before I'm over legal weight. And that's because my kids are small and don't weigh much. That's a joke right?

And $25-30k for a well used ROW Defender that's at least 25 years old and has no dealer support (I do not consider JLR dealers in the US as support for ROW Defenders) while emotionally tempting, is not an investment that people are making on cold hard facts. Even if the Grenadier is over 50k and I can get diesel range, original Defender payload and off road performance, but not be in an absolute death trap, sign me up.

Make no mistake, I really want a ROW diesel Defender 110, but try arguing with my wife on why it makes sense to spend $25k or more (plenty approaching $60k which is nice used G class money) for a ROW Defender that will leak water in the cab and oil on the driveway, couldn't even meet US safety standards from before we were born, is slow, and has no air conditioning because it has character. I still want one, but not because it makes any logical sense, because it just doesn't so let's all be honest with ourselves.

If the Ineos delivers a real off road utility vehicle with modern safety features and doesn't cost $75-90k like an overly luxurious new Defender or Land Cruiser or $125k for a G class, I'll buy one. Of course I wish that they had secured an engine deal with just about any other engine manufacturer on earth other than BMW...
 

ryanjl

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My favorite mod on a Jeep is big tires accompanied by 22" wheels with fake beadlocks. It's almost like they have a sign on the outside that says "I NEVER GO OFFROAD, NOR DO I EVEN KNOW HOW TO."
 

catman

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Let’s all also remember that Tesla wasn’t successful on their first car. Only 2500 Tesla roadsters were sold practically sending the company into bankruptcy. I’d say it’s highly unlikely for the Grenadier to be successful coming from a company no ones herd about unless they have their own Elon Musk in the operation.

Well, Jim Ratcliffe is worth roughly 18 billion and Elon Musk is worth roughly 83 billion, but Jim Ratcliffe does not have to fund a Space Company, so they are not too far apart in my book - he seems to have the resources to make it work, if he really wants to go all the way.
 

bromhead

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Wow, so many great quotes, nice article. I will reserve judgement until I see the price point, but I do wonder how much demand there really is for what the Grenadier brings. I am game, but how many people out there are looking to pay a premium for a non US proper off roader? I totally missed the ball when the sporty SUV’s came out, I thought the concept was stupid....turns out plenty of people thought differently. I fear the opposite might be true with the Grenadier....but it would be nice to have options! Again, great article.
 

binch

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If LR isn't going to build a proper Defender then I'll be glad to follow Mr Ratcliff's product. He has the passion for offroad vehicles and he's taking on the challenge of creating a vehicle using the best characteristics of the defender, land cruiser, and a few others. Unlike the new offender his will be much easier to maintain, repair and modify to suite various formats. And it's being designed with offroad in mind....NOT fashion sense of the local prom queen.

I've got a disco 11 with 398,000 km on it....it's getting tired but it still gets me where I'm going. I'm on my second Range Rover Classic (first one was from Belfast and the frame rotted out) but the second is being built now with a galvanized chassis and 300tdi....Love those RRC's. And my 1986 ExMod (bought after 15 years of abuse by the squaddies) 110, with the 200tdi engine is a mule! It's not pretty, it doesn't go fast, it's noisy inside and doesn't have a stereo (not that I could hear it anyways). And whatever weather I get outside I will see it inside too. The heater is horrible when it gets down to -40C so I bring an extra jacket to plug the holes, slowing down the flow through air :) But I get 800km on a 75lt tank of fuel and I can carry 4 gerry cans giving my a range of about 1500km, which is great when you are in the back country. I carry my 'pine striping' with pride and I never get tired of the "thumbs up" or cars flying past me and suddenly braking to take a pic on their cell phones. I can fix most anything on it myself with relatively basic tools. Heck, if the battery fails I can still push start it and drive it away. There are no 'idiot lights' on it so I have to lift the hood every now and then to check on things. And when I'm going through 4' of water, watching it gush in through the door seems it makes me grin with pride! I can get most any part for the truck withing 4 days (some take two weeks) but I can get them easily. It will cost me less the $200 to fix a bent front fender......

Now besides having a nice stereo, great climate control and go fast mode........what can the 'offender' do to give me the same joy I get now?

I'm VERY interested in this Grenadier and I'm hoping they do well. But if that fails.....I'll look to the IBEX for a new body and chassis but keep all my old 'DEFENDER' parts.

But I'll not be getting a new Chelsea Tractor....I just don't have that kind of fashion sense LOL.
 

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