Another Defender hint?

[avslash]

It hurts me to say this but for the first time I’m truly disappointed in Land Rover. After seeing the bronco and studying it, it makes me disappointed because there isn’t truly a good market for this defender. But the part that really makes me disappointed is knowing that Land Rover can do so much better.

this defender should compete with the bronco and the wrangler, it should be boxy, the top should be removable, the tires should be bigger. The only way I see Land Rover possibly making a profitable profit off this car is making a removable top. People want an open top go anywhere get dirty 4x4 and that’s where the defender should be.

Easy to feel like that, but IMO you can't get ******* into a manufacturer. I still vividly remember GM breaking my heart when I was a kid by killing off the Buick GNX and replacing it with the GM10 version "Regal" before I could get my hands on one. It was a tough lesson in economics for my teenaged self.

The manufacturers aren't loyal to us, they are loyal to the almighty dollar, and if they could drive sales volume by selling purple weinermobiles, they would. Manufacturers build what they think will sell, and then adjust from their based on market experience.

I'm quite sure Land Rover built what their market data and their experience told them would sell. Unfortunately for the somewhat niche users like many of us here, it was not what many of us wanted to see. There is little to no "risk" in the new Defender. To my eye it looks much like the other JLR product currently out their. There is nothing radical or particularly distinctive about it. It is another branch from the same McGovern family tree that has all the JLR product offerings looking like slightly different sized versions of the same vehicle; air suspension, big wheels, low profile tires, smallish windows, et al. The most striking aspect of it to me was the somewhat utilitarian interior by current JLR standards.

Read an interview or two with McGovern. The guy is a pompous ass who thinks if you don't like what he is selling the problem is yours, not JLR's. Likewise, their comments that the Defender had to look the way it does due to modern regulations is utter hogwash; see the revised G-Wagen, Wrangler, and now the Bronco.

JLR brought a bland, sameish product to market, dusted off their most iconic model name to lend some credence to it, and I think they will regret their conservatism in the long run. Of course if it turns out that the Defender makes Suzy soccer mom a little damp in the right places, then McGovern is a genius and I'm just the guy on the internet with an opinion.

 

[PaulLR3]

While McGovern's $89K First Edition Defenders sit on dealer lots, this happens:

You know you've got a popular product when people are having trouble giving you their money. When the 2021 Ford Bronco was revealed last night, we — and you, probably — noticed right away that Ford's Bronco reservation site was apparently struggling to handle the volume. We often couldn't get in. But in spite of that, the frenzy was so intense that people kept at it until they got their $100 in, and this morning Ford has a notice on the site saying of the limited First Edition: "Reservations full."

 

[umbertob]

While McGovern's $89K First Edition Defenders sit on dealer lots, this happens:

You know you've got a popular product when people are having trouble giving you their money. When the 2021 Ford Bronco was revealed last night, we — and you, probably — noticed right away that Ford's Bronco reservation site was apparently struggling to handle the volume. We often couldn't get in. But in spite of that, the frenzy was so intense that people kept at it until they got their $100 in, and this morning Ford has a notice on the site saying of the limited First Edition: "Reservations full."

Hopefully the actual Bronco will be built tougher than their web site. It's only a $100.00 fully refundable "reservation", sounds great that it crashed the web site, but didn't Land Rover claim that they got something like 2 million saved configurations on their own web site within a week of introducing the new Defender?

The full size Bronco is a fantastic looking truck and they'll sell tons of them (in about a year... That's quite a wait.) If I were Jeep, I'd be worried, and it's about time someone challenges them directly on their home turf. IMHO Land Rover is catering to a different crowd - even the new Defender. If I had the room (and the extra money...) for a weekend trail shredder with 35" M/Ts, I'd be putting that $100.00 down myself, probably. But I can only have 1 vehicle, and the Defender seems to fit my needs better as a daily driver, family hauler, business tool and, occasionally, an extremely capable overlander and off-roader. Looks are subjective, but it seems to balance all those chores better that a Bronco or Wrangler would - for me.

Kudos to Ford though. Their choice of engines for those beasts seems a bit anemic at launch, but other than that they really nailed it in my opinion.

 

[Troy A]

I laughed when their site failed. I was one of the ones clicking on reserve now and watching it fail. There is no excuse for that in the era of cloud computing and/or distributed systems. It was laziness and poor system design on their part or more likely the part of their ad agency. For all we know, it could only handle 50 people at a time before barfing. That's pretty amateur but frankly I'd expect that from Ford.

As to your comments, I agree wholeheartedly. Different market segments, customers, use cases. But nice to see Ineos and Bronco and Rivian and Cybertruck, and yes, even the new Defender in the market. More choice is good and we'll see how all the bets play out in a few years.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TheWidup]

The ford site failed just like how their 4wd system will fail. I love the idea of the Bronco but Ford lost me in their Sync tech, hodgepodge 4wd system, lipstick on a pig, etc. I'm waiting on a Rivian at this point...keeping my LR4 a baby as long as I can.

 

[ryanjl]

I'm quite sure Land Rover built what their market data and their experience told them would sell. Unfortunately for the somewhat niche users like many of us here, it was not what many of us wanted to see.

Land Rover is using that New Coke marketing technique.

Their marketing may have told them the Defender will sell, but I'm betting a huge chunk of those sales will come at the expense of other Land Rover models.

 

[PaulLR3]

But I can only have 1 vehicle, and the Defender seems to fit my needs better as a daily driver, family hauler, business tool and, occasionally, an extremely capable overlander and off-roader. Looks are subjective, but it seems to balance all those chores better that a Bronco or Wrangler would - for me. .

Exactly my thoughts. I plan to take my LR4 through one more winter/ski season then order a Defender in spring. Mine needed a lot of parts and maintenance at 75K miles and I can't see "investing" thousands of dollars into it again at 150K miles.

 

[jmars]

LR blew it, plain and simple. The D5 is a failure and the Defender will be a forgettable auto no matter how good off road it is....it’s boring and garners no excitement bc it doesn’t represent the classic in 98% off ppls minds. If they called it something else I’d understand.

The buyer of the bronco and defender aren’t dissimilar not matter what is thought....the masses wanted another “care free” auto that represents fun. Ford did that, Jeep continues to do it .....LR created the defender and it’s not fun at all, not remotely fun.

No one is questioning the looks or where the design of the bronco came from as it looks like a modernized classic. The Defender is only the Defender in name for the buying public - it doesn’t check any of the physical classic boxes that drive the emotion of many who love trucks/autos(not just those who love classic 90 series).

I almost want the Defender to fail along with the D5, I want the Velar out of the line up, I’d like JLR to stop cannibalizing itself And we need McGovern OUT!!

How dare the LR dealers create a false demand by jacking up the pricing. Let’s also not forget about the current world state and economy - may not be anyone stroking a check for the defender. Bad timing and a poor physical design to be called Defender.

“MLRGA”

 

[djkaosone]

Here's a good comparison between the (new) Bronco and (new) Defender. https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/14/ford-bronco-land-rover-defender-spec-comparo/

 

[cperez]

I was one of the ones clicking on reserve now and watching it fail. There is no excuse for that in the era of cloud computing and/or distributed systems.

Good points from a tech perspective (I agree) but from a marketing standpoint who wouldn't want to say that demand/interest crashed our site minutes into the reveal? Just adds to the buzz on top of the fact that they showed us what appears to be a cool product that presses a lot of buttons in their target audience.

I was smiling and nodding throughout the Bronco reveal program. I don't recall doing that during the new Defender launch, and I'm a fan of new Defender. I'm not even close to ditching Land Rover but the new Bronco must be causing serious agita in its competitors' board rooms. We'll see.