Is there any logic to wanting a used LR with high miles over low miles?

[andrewmg]

I am looking to buy an 09 lr3 or 10-11 lr4 if the price is right. With Land rover's well documented reliability problems, wouldn't buying a used car with high miles mean the owner trusted it to go the distance and wasn't hit left and right with small issues? Whereas a LR with low miles may be more appealing, but the owner may have simply be frustrated with it and gotten rid of it quickly.

Perhaps an 09 with low miles would be worse to own than an 11 with high miles at the same price. Or does the high mileage deter you because that may lead to a different set of repair problems?

 

[jwest]

it's sort of simple really.

Obviously, older/higher miles = much cheaper up front. newer/low miles = spend a lot more up front.

Now, in the more $ up front scenario, you will 100% be spending the "more $" no matter what, because it costs more to purchase. However, buying newer does NOT inherently mean you will not also spend additional $ on repairs.

The 2nd scenario, where you buy an older one for less, is more of a gamble as you may, or may not, spend the same $ over the same odometer or vehicle age as if buying a more expensive vehicle.
There are pros and cons. Some people do not like to roll the dice on that but they are also fooling themselves to think that newer absolutely = less repairs or farther out into the future.

Odds are though that the longer the duration or the miles, it all works out more similarly. Meaning, if you and I both buy a rover today, but one has 75,000 on it and the other is 0 miles. I'll spend $70k now and you'll spend half that, or less. Over the next 10 years, will yours cost $35k in actual repairs?

Over the first 5 years of time, what can the bulk your $35k not spent on the vehicle do for you in other ways? It could start a small business, pay off expensive debt, be invested, CD's, take some massive trips while still healthy enough to enjoy them, etc.

Lot's of good reasons to try the older/cheaper route but that's where taking time to find a well maintained version comes into more importance.

About that miles thing, no, there are simply very low mileage drivers, high ones, and the type of driving matters more than the actual miles. For example, the person who starts the vehicle 4x / day for going to work, then lunch and home driving not far enough for a 100% engine warming and oil cycle, is doing more wear in some ways than me hopping in today and driving to the other coast, mostly just rolling at 70 mph for hundreds of miles per start up and all cycles are 100% so the vehicle is much happier.

It depends on how a person treats the vehicle too. Why do my brake rotors last over 50,000 miles...., my tires 65,000 but some other dudes are clueless about theirs running out in 15k... Well, I bet their seat leather looks like crap too and mine is fine.

Another example, I have a car with 112,000 miles, I might put on 750/ week but 500 of that was only 2 start ups and no stops in towns, etc. Just nice easy highways. The car looks practically new inside and mechanically.

 

[PaulLR3]

Like jwest said, a big factor is what type of miles are on the vehicle. I drive 25,000 miles per year, mostly highway. My wife drives 6000 miles per year, but it is abusive driving. At least 10 starts per day then 2-3 mile trips to take the kids to school, activities and sports. Plus short trips to the grocery store, cleaners, bank, etc. And this takes place in cold weather for 5 months of the year.

A second factor is maintenance. If you find one with well documented repairs and maintenance you won't be buying a money pit. Most LR3 owners that take care of their LR3's spend about $3K per year. Typical repairs include mostly suspension parts such as ball joints, bushings, control arms, tie rods and wheel hubs. Mine needed all that and I had to replace a whining rear differential. Other small repairs that are common include the hood latch sensor for the alarm, brake light switch and tailgate release. Brakes and tires lasted 35K miles on ours but some people go through a set every 20K miles.

A third factor unique to Land Rover is how much time it spent offroad. Was it an expedition vehicle or mom shuttle. My LR3 spent lots of time on a drive-on beach and driving salted roads in winter. The frame and undercarriage had lots of surface rust, which is common. Those that climbed rocks could have other damage. Have a mechanic put it on a lift and inspect it for damage.

 

[roverman]

I suppose if you really did your research and found a higher mileage one that had most of the common repairs done, then it could save you quite a bit. On my LR3, I did the front hubs, alternator, control arms so they should all be good for quite some time. But at 108,000 miles, I have not needed anything yet with any of the suspension, so there's a lot that could get spent there relatively soon. Will just take a some research.
One thing that nobody has mentioned yet is depreciation. You will spend less on repairs each year than a newer one will depreciate yearly. Sooner or later the $40,000 one will be worth $10000. So as long as you spend less than $30000 on repairs on your $10000 LR, you're ahead.

 

[Bama4door]

I'm glad this thread got started, as I'm in the market for a 10-11 LR4. I just joined the forum a couple weeks ago and have been looking up old threads and researching a ton.

Most I'm looking at are between 60-65k miles. There's one 2010 with 75k miles I've found that has had the following replaced:

-fuse block & keyless remote replaced 3500 miles
-fuel pump & fuel level unit replaced 17k miles
-rotors/pads 23k miles
-water pump replaced 45k miles
-O2 sensor replaced & front window regulator 50k miles

It's had every 15k mile service done at the local LR dealership.

Do you guys think this is a lemon, or does it seem ok since most of the stuff that can go bad has already been replaced (water pump, keyless remote, etc)?

I'm going to look at it next week and if it drives well and checks out to me, I'm going to take it to a friends shop to have him look it over.

Would you all stay away from said 2010 I described above?

 

[jwest]

One thing that nobody has mentioned yet is depreciation. You will spend less on repairs each year than a newer one will depreciate yearly. Sooner or later the $40,000 one will be worth $10000. So as long as you spend less than $30000 on repairs on your $10000 LR, you're ahead.

That's exactly what I said without using the word depreciation. However, the resale value, i.e. depreciation, is irrelevant unless sold sooner than later.

Some other tidbits usually overlooked:

An older vehicle costs less annually in states where you pay book value property tax (about 1% in NC means new $55k lr3 cost over $500 2nd year for registration renewal) or up front in sales tax like WA where it's nearly 10%. NC sales tax is only 3% on a vehicle, but then you pay it over time due to the above property tax.

Then there's the interest on loans or the interest lost elsewhere if paying cash. Those two less commonly considered areas of the $ equation do really add up over 5-7 years. I say 7 because some people can "depreciate" their vehicle for business purposes. This can help dramatically with buying something more expensive, i.e. larger deduction annually, but only depending on the overall tax situation. For example, if a business runs near zero profit, then more deductions for a depreciated item doesn't help much because you don't get to save up the deduction for when it's needed more.

People who drive a lot of miles are ultimately better off claiming the mileage rate though unless the vehicle is very expensive, $70-100k or more. Mileage is straight up 55¢ so 10,000 miles is simply $5500 deduction but 30,000 is $16,500 which is where you'd have to spend over $80k or so to choose depreciation instead. Best to look over the numbers with a cpa

 

[andrewmg]

I guess to strike a balance with miles and age, i'm thinking a 2010 LR4 is the best option. As long as there aren't any common first year generation problems with, but i haven't done a huge amount of research on the car.

For a 2010, will a dealer sell any kind of warranty for a non cpo car?

 

[jwest]

Be mindful that there are mileage intervals where an extended warranty becomes much more expensive and/or longer extensions become unavailable.

For example, over 50k you can't as easily buy an additional 4 years 50k because the vehicle needs to still be under factory warranty. a 2010 obviously is too old though.

So, talk about this with the warranty person in at least 2 different dealers to learn about what's available. Also, you do NOT have to buy the warranty from where you buy the vehicle, not at all. I bought my extended at a different dealer.

 

[andrewmg]

yeah, I'll watch for that. And lastly, could any of you predict where the value of a 2010 base lr4 will be in 2-3 months? I figured with new models coming out about that time of year there will be a notable amount of depreciation. Right now they are going anywhere from $27-33k

 

[jwest]

the cycle for lease returns is just as important in that estimation. The new model, 2016, won't even be any different than the 2015 so there's much less affect as compared to 18 months from now when the new generation will be out int he news and the lr4 will be the outgoing design.

To get the best deal I'd wait until closer to the end of the year like November when 2016 are actually on order, even arriving. 2-3 months from now isn't going to be much different than right now.

End of November 2008 I was able to negotiate about 15% off a new Audi due to the newer generation coming out. Even though enthusiasts knew the one I bought was "IT" as there were no more wagon variant S4 at all, and especially not in 6 spd. You can't even find this used on Autotrader these days.

You waiting 6 months should "earn" you a few thousand at least but waiting a year could make a $5000-$8000 difference I'm betting.