Transmission taking too long to shift

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Longtrail

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@Longtrail ,
Do see the process here: https://aftermarket.zf.com/app/cont...nary/5a709c41-c80e-11ed-a2f4-00505690da53.pdf

Truly, just use KISS. Meaning, 90% of the very transmissions out there do not have the external, non ZF endorsed zipkit. I would ignore the idea for now.
Absolutely agree, it's just fluid for now... (as committed twice previously) The document is exactly the same one that I've been reviewing. When I think I have it down I'll post steps. As always thanks for the help.
 

Longtrail

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In the ZF procedure (50145 EN) here are the key steps with regards gear selection:

1727794161721.png


Selecting R and D is easy (even when the wheels are on the ground)! How does one shift to 4th gear and what is the "Winter program" that allows you to shift manually? It then goes on to state that you hold each gear for 3 seconds... This all implies that the wheels are indeed off the ground.

Looking in the LR4 service manual it mentions this:

1727794444652.png


I've not been able to locate this procedure (307-01D) to see if Land Rover have a different spin on this procedure from ZF. Does anyone have access to this procedure?
 

ftillier

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Winter program would be the snow and gravel terrain control mode. I would guess manual shifting would be done by going into S and they selecting gears. I don't know how high a gear it will let you select without moving.
 

Longtrail

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Winter program would be the snow and gravel terrain control mode. I would guess manual shifting would be done by going into S and they selecting gears. I don't know how high a gear it will let you select without moving.
Thanks, I'll test and report back... I never use S; I don't like how it immediately drops gears when I select it! Have to protect the v8!...
 

itsaguything

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And yet, I always use S as I grew up expecting as you released the pressure on the accelerator, a vehicle should actually, noticeably slow. And not continue in a neutral state. (that is, using its engine brakes, and adjusting the gears appropriately)
Moreover, the extremely low gear shift rpms on acceleration annoy me, lol.
 

Longtrail

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I ran a basic test; you can only access S1 and S2 whether you're in regular terrain mode or the snow and gravel mode. That basically confirms that if you want to follow the ZF procedure (50145 EN) then the wheels need to come off the ground for gear selection. Points to itsaguything :cool:.

FWIW - I'm happy to use the engine to brake; I like to do this on a track with a manual gear box and using my heel + toe to drive! The LR4 is not that vehicle for me (put perhaps the vehicle that tow's the track car...)! To each his own; that's the beauty of choice :driver:.

More to follow as I work through this - thanks.
 

Longtrail

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I started working on the transmission last night! I can now see why it takes so long, esp. as I tend to go quite methodically (read slow)! In many respects I feel I got very lucky as some of it went very smoothly. Here are some notes and tips...

I put the suspension in extended mode to give myself some room, I then spent quite a lot of time to get axle stands setup but based on where I put the axle stands on the vehicle the vehicle was very obviously not level; realizing this and making adjustments the axle stands are not tall enough so the rear of the vehicle is sitting on wheels; the front is on axle stands. I'll resolve this when I come back to adding the transmission fluid and needing the vehicle to be level and wheels off the ground.

I then started by removing the rear cross-member; this is the cross member that supports the transmission and the only cross-member that can be removed (back of the transmission). When I got to the passenger side (US vehicle) I realized that one of the nuts was inaccessible and decided to abort the cross-member removal; I don't think the work to remove the cross-member is worth the slight benefit in accessing the rear four transmission pan bolts... Here's an image of the passenger side cross-member bolts and why there's an issue:

1728054080852.png


I did however remove the bolt that secures the transmission to the cross-member and lifted the transmission by about an inch to buy a little more room.

Before emptying the transmission fluid, I wanted to make sure the fill plug was removable (needs an 8mm Allen wrench); I didn't want to get in a situation where the transmission fluid was emptied and I couldn't refill it again; I got this tip from Christian at LR Time and it resonated with me. This caused my first spill as fluid started weeping out the fill plug! (Brake cleaner to the rescue as I wasn't ready for this).

My next issue was removing the drain plug (needs a 10mm Allen wrench); this was rounded out. I used a 3/8" drill bit and drilled until fluid started coming out (being very careful not to drill the mechatronic unit).

Once all the fluid was drained out, I started removing the 21 bolts; these on my LR4 were T40 Torx; I hear some older models are T30 Torx. A combination of a Makita drive rachet and this tool helped a lot (in fact I want to make a huge shoutout for this little tool; without it I think I would have been stuck):


1728055399575.png

Some of the bolts are incredibly difficult to access; I shudder at the thought of threading them back in. I do however think that this is one area where I got extremely lucky as they all came out very well, once I'd uncracked each bolt, I was able to use my fingers (in some cases my forefinger on each hand) to remove the bolts. Be patient; this just takes time, every single bolt had insufficient friction to use the Kaifnt tool (the racket is too strong) and so each bolt was removed by hand.

With all bolts removed the plastic pan came off easily, I was able to then use a hacksaw blade to cut through the 3/4" pipe fairly easily (if I've lost you here I suggest watching the British Atlantic video or similar - they do it on an LR3; the LR4 is similar). I was thinking this was going to be difficult but with a brand-new blade it probably took me about a minute; the diameter of the pipe was a lot less than I was expecting and the thickness of the sidewall makes this sawing quite easy. I was then able to remove the pan by rotating it 90deg and slipping it out between the exhaust and the front cross-member.

I called it a night and will start again in a few days. I hope this helps others who follow. A quick question, does this white plastic part stay on:

1728056348363.png
 
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Longtrail

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Updates from today... I posted a new thread as I'm stuck trying to replace the mechatronic wiring harness sleeve. Other progress:

I used a combination of a kitchen sponge and other mildly abrasive materials (including something like a 1000 grit sandpaper - for honing engine bores) to clean the bottom of the transmission; this is needed in order to replace the original plastic ZF pan with the new steel ZF transmission pan. The original plastic pan has a small inbuilt o-ring that is used to seal the transmission, whereas the new metal pan relies on a much bigger gasket and therefore requires the whole mating surface to be much cleaner.

I also spend time cleaning/tapping each of the 21 threads within the transmission body; this is necessary because in most cases the thread is exposed to the elements by virtue of the fact that the mounting face is a flange on the transmission body meaning the bolts when secured pop out the other side of the flange (mud etc. can get down in to the threads). I used a M6 x 1.0 tap to clean the threads where possible and where access is tight I used a new bolts (1 for each thread) to cleanout the thread (slowly working the thread in and out with a slight amount of grease). Given the new metal pan is much thinner than the original plastic pan the new bolts are shorter (see following image); however, I noticed that the last 1/4" (6mm) the bolt in some cases became quite difficult to screw in. To me, this really validates the necessity for this procedure otherwise you're torque wrench when installing the bolts is going to be triggering way to soon.

1728151092983.png


That's it for today until I figure out the sleeve!
 

Longtrail

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The job is done! Here's the next part of the puzzle... To change the mechatronic valve sleeve I started a new post; details on this job and how I did it can be found here:


A little tip that helped, before installing the new metal pan I stuck some painters tape around the periphery of the pan and wrote the bolt sequence number next to each bolt (photo to follow).

The next step after this was to get the new filter in place; I applied a little new transmission fluid on the o'ring at the top of the filter and popped it up in to place, it's easy, nothing much to report on this step. I then installed the new ZF metal pan (and LubeLocker gasket), I went in from the driver side of the vehicle with the drain plug nearest the driver side of the vehicle; the whole pan is rotated ninety degrees from it's final installation direction. Once inserted between the front cross member and exhaust it rotates ninety degrees in to position; it does take a little maneuvering! (FWIW - I did try inserting the pan with the drain plug on the passenger side of the vehicle but couldn't get the pan to rotate in to position).

I then installed twenty one bolts in the correct torquing order, on this initial pass I literally secured each bolt with a couple of turns allowing the gasket and pan to move freely until all 21 bolts were installed. I then went back and hand tightened the bolts using a combination of my fingers and the KAIFNT tool mentioned above (with minimal torque).

I have a small 1/4" torque wrench and needed to fashion a T40 fastener; I have 3/8" drive T40 but not a 1/4" T40; so I used a 3/8" to 1/4" adapter where possible to tighten the screws to 12Nm (9ft-lbs). I got super lucky with the next step so wanted to share something that worked really well (like I was able to torque all 21 bolts). I went to Menards and purchased a 3/8" T40 bit like this one:

1728833638949.png

I then used a punch to push out the Torx bit:
1728837817370.png

Then put the Torx bit in a 8mm socket:
1728837868328.png

This combination was absolutely the perfect length (approx. 1 3/4") as it allowed me to reach every bolt (with some maneuvering on my part):
1728837946491.png

Using my Pro Bike Tool:
1728838073917.png

I torqued all 21 bolts and repeated to check them all. I then re-installed the transfer case support bolt and the two bolts in the cross-member.
 

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