2014-2016 Traxide Dual Battery Kit Lessons Learned

[bbyer]

Load shedding - I noted your comment re the heated windscreen and steering wheel heat not working. I wonder if also the heated seats and rear glass heat is also off. The radio amplifier may be on low power as well. It comforts me that we do not yet have electric steering.

Apparently for emissions reasons, my 3 when at low idle, (say at a stop light), tends to go into low electrical power mode. That means the various high electrical load items cycle on and off so that the engine does not have to jump up into a higher idle state just to power the alternator.

My guess would be that your 4 does something similar re this Start / Stop function. Somehow the heated windscreen and motorcycle battery seem mutually exclusive. I must say I like the idea of replacing the motorcycle battery with the Aux battery.

The game will be to fool that module into thinking the vehicle is always at speed - it may be getting a speedometer or GPS signal - probably the speedo, but being Land Rover, always the less obvious - something about the "path less traveled".

Somewhere in the LR shop service publications, there should be an essay (rather than a wiring drawing) as to just how Start / Stop functions - where it gets its information and on what buss - a volts / no volts signal would be just too simple. That printed circuit board is talking to something.

Since they make the 4 for markets that do not require Stop / Stop, there must be a way of removing it; much like we do not have the Japanese pollution sensors that shut the cabin inlet air off and put the HVAC into full recirculation mode. The wiring is there for it, but the smarts are not. There is also a "switch" in the Car Configuration File (CCF) that is set to off for the NA market, at least on the 3.

 

[AdventureTim]

Further weight to it likely being a serial bus: https://www.csselectronics.com/screen/page/lin-bus-protocol-intro-basics/language/en

 

[bbyer]

I was reading the LIN Buss website - very informative but for some reason I did a Google re "How to disable the start stop on a Land Rover".

Per the link below, the guy purchased one of those 4 pin trailer light tester plugs and plugged it into the 4 pin trailer light receptacle at the rear - stop start cancelled. I think however the little green "trailer" light came on instead.

https://landroverforums.com/forum/new-discovery-v-51/auto-start-stop-defeat-97024/

Also I read another thread where on Land Rovers, they were just disconnecting the + on the motorcycle battery and taping all up. Maybe the LR system is smart enough to figure out that if the battery is dead, best not to stop the engine. There was no real mention of dash lights either way so maybe not a perfect solution. The link below is specific to Jaguar.

https://www.rangerovers.net/threads/how-to-permanently-disable-intelligent-stop-start.138865/

 

[Michael Gain]

The heated steering wheel is still INOP... not sure about the windscreen, as it is not cold enough to test visually; and I honestly do not feel like pulling the a-pillars to check voltage at the connectors. The heated seats work. At least the driver's does. Not sure about the rear window defroster, as I was distracted by the windscreen not functioning, nor the rear seat heaters.

I think I am going to rig the power supply distribution box back up. Not as a permanent solution, but to test if the LIN re-activates the heated windscreen and steering wheel. I just need to find a place to mount it where the connectors can still reach. There does not appear to be enough room beside the brake booster, but I'll try that first. As mentioned above, I may have to pull the a-pillars anyway if reconnection still does not activate the heated windscreen.

Also I read another thread where on Land Rovers, they were just disconnecting the + on the motorcycle battery and taping all up. Maybe the LR system is smart enough to figure out that if the battery is dead, best not to stop the engine. There was no real mention of dash lights either way so maybe not a perfect solution. The link below is specific to Jaguar.

https://www.rangerovers.net/threads/how-to-permanently-disable-intelligent-stop-start.138865/

At least in the LR4, if any component is removed, it triggers the ECO light. I disconnected the negative ground on the motorcycle battery = light. I removed the battery and combined the positive and negative cables to complete the circuit = light.

I will say that something internally failed on my wife's LR4 where the start/stop did not function, and it did not trigger a light. I think it was an older iteration of the power supply distribution box, but we traded it in before I could do more trouble shooting.

There was a forum post somewhere that discussed disabling the seat belt sensor---the start/stop does not work if the driver buckle is unfastened. I looked briefly at the connector for the buckle, but did not want to compromise the pretensioner

 

[bbyer]

I recall years back where one could disable the seat belt buzzer and or light by I thinking inserting the buckle and removing it a number of times and that disabled the noisemakers. It must have been GM but I do not recall for certain - maybe Ford.

It makes sense that the stop start would be bypassed with the seat belt not connected (or something else) as otherwise, the dealership would have to have some procedure to keep the engine going for service.

Re the heated windscreen, maybe it has not been working for a long time and nothing to do with the stop / start? I agree, there is no easy way to test it other than find some snow or freezing rain - not something to go look for. I usually end up with a new windscreen every two or three years and I have to wait until winter to find out if the heat works or more likely, if all the wires work. Most often all work OK but occasionally a strip a few inches wide does not heat. The fix is to wait a couple of years.

 

[AdventureTim]

Auto start/stop functions correctly on my LR4 and I can verify that if the seatbelt is not present, it will not engage (it will also switch off the engine if the car is auto stopped, you put it into Park and then remove your seatbelt). It's certainly possible that the heated steering wheel is being disabled if the system thinks the second battery is not available - I can see that the relay that supplies power to the heated steering wheel system (and to others, but I couldn't find out exactly what) is triggered by the Body Control Module. However, there is no direct wire from the seatbelt switch to the start/stop control module - it must get this information from the LIN bus - which means if you were to bypass the switch at the seatbelt receptacle, you would also get the light on the dash and the reminder chime.

In my experience, when the motorcycle battery starts to get old (e.g. low voltage, barely holds a charge), the auto start/stop will not engage and no light is shown on the dash. However, once the motorcycle battery completely dies (e.g. drops a cell), then the dash light will appear with the message, "Start/stop system inactive," every time you start the vehicle.

 

[Michael Gain]

Re the heated windscreen, maybe it has not been working for a long time and nothing to do with the stop / start? I agree, there is no easy way to test it other than find some snow or freezing rain - not something to go look for. I usually end up with a new windscreen every two or three years and I have to wait until winter to find out if the heat works or more likely, if all the wires work. Most often all work OK but occasionally a strip a few inches wide does not heat. The fix is to wait a couple of years.

It was working before I started this fun-- use it to defog the morning see as well.

It's certainly possible that the heated steering wheel is being disabled if the system thinks the second battery is not available - I can see that the relay that supplies power to the heated steering wheel system (and to others, but I couldn't find out exactly what) is triggered by the Body Control Module.

I scrubbed the diagrams. I think you're right though. It's something with the LIN as it enters the gateway module. According to the gap tool, "gateway a" and the bus signal are failing.

I just took the passenger battery box apart and tried to maneuver the PSDB above the steering shaft, beside the brake booster. It wasn't even close to fitting. Also, the OEM harnesses are too short to relocate the box anywhere else.

I put the aux battery back in and reassembled the box. I'm going to reattach the start stop goods (with the OEM harnesses attached to the box instead of the batteries) and see what that does. If the steering wheel heater comes back, and the codes clear (and if I didn't burn out the LIN by applying battery current), i will extend the harness wires to support another mounting location for the box.

 

[bbyer]

This is a real trail and error sort of thing.

This reminds me of when I removed the factory dealer installed 2004 analogue Bluetooth and installed the 2008 fibre optic Bluetooth.

Upon power up, yes, the Bluetooth phone worked but the radio audio remained silent - display showed all good but no sound.

The solution was to apply full time 12VDC to one of the pins on the back of the radio (this was a real heart in mouth kind of thing for me). Doing so caused the audio to sound when the phone was not in play and mute when the phone was in use - as all is supposed to.

My previous understanding of mute is that mute pins are generally grounded to make silence. In this case, the pin remained powered full time whether I was talking on the phone or not and then the mute worked as it should. The surprise added feature is that the radio can now be turned on or off without the key in the ignition - something that it did not do previously.

In normal operation, yes the radio turns on when the engine starts and off when the engine is turned off and the key withdrawn. Also when manually turned on, the auto shut down still works a few minutes later and the radio turns itself off.

Maybe when you get all working, you will have more features in play.

Probably the LIN is still OK as I think the conductors normally show battery voltage and the signal is impressed on top of the voltage. The buss might be 5 volts but I think not - some of our systems are that I gather or at least were on the 3.

 

[Michael Gain]

This is a real trail and error sort of thing.

You got that right lol. It's definitely been fun. So, I hooked the power supply distribution box back up, but only attached the aux battery to batt1.

With this set up, I only had a code complaining about the second battery (nothing hooked up to that stud), and the heated steering wheel WORKS!

definitely a LIN issue. So, looks like the only good place to mount this thing is in front of the passenger side air box:

I did have some time to tinker tonight, so I cannibalized the OEM start/stop harness. I ran bat2 from the aux battery, along the top of the radiator, to the passenger side.

I tried to hook up bat1 from the cranking battery, but the terminal is oddly shaped. So, tomorrow I will go to AutoZone and get some more electrical goodies.

I will extend the larger connectors wires and follow the bat2 wire across the radiator to connect to the PSDB. The two-wire connector that goes to the starter will just re-attach to the spade terminals i bridged to the cranking battery already: that way I do not have to extend its wires across the radiator as well.

Tomorrow should be fun!

 

[bbyer]

For the most part, electric wires do not care how long they are.

As long as the primary conductor between the cranking battery and the starter motor is about what the factory installed, the rest of the conductors may as well be as long as required to make the mod look factory.

I would not be afraid of snaking even zero gauge wires around whatever as long as I had them wrapped with that plastic anti-chaff stuff - it is cheap but looks good.

Re wires near the rad, I would make certain there was no chance of the conductors beating on the fins. I find that the fins tend to bend just from looking at them.

I assume you have to make some sort of extension cord between that multipin connector on the Start / Stop module and where the other end ties to the 4. With much difficulty you may be able to order from some internet site, mating plugs. As such, I would make the cable somewhat longer than necessary so that when you find the mating plugs that you will have some extra to be able to crimp the pins to. See the link below.

It appears that you are going to succeed and I think you could make this mod look good.

As to custom length battery cables, if there are any generator repair shops near you, they should be able to custom cut battery cables to length and clamp on suitable ends.


Below is a link to 5 pages of 50 each x 12 cavity connectors.

https://connectorexperts.com/c-1261638-connectors-12-cavities.html

This is the sort of project that lends itself to the creation of a kit.