Remind Me Again Why We Love These Things?

avslash

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Random question but how did you know your rear control arms were toast?

I should probably have put a P on that item. I don't know that they were bad, but at 80k+ and two sets of front bushings I figured they must at least be "tired". I swapped them when I changed out all of my bushings to the orange poly. Well, almost all. My rear wheel knuckle bushes were replaced with factory rubber ones. I could not locate a poly substitute for those.
 

djkaosone

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I'm putting that on my bucket list. Maybe in a year or 2 I'll do it, or maybe sooner if it starts getting weird on me. I think my current alternator is about 4 yo, trying to maximize roi on it.
 

greiswig

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My reasoning being that the computer commands a certain level of alternator output via the pwm signal based on factory alternator specifications. With a higher output alternator that produces a higher amperage at all engine speeds, the same pwm signal from the computer should equate to a higher amperage flowing back to the batteries at all engine speeds. So far, at least anecdotally, it seems to have helped. With the factory alternator I would sometimes see charging voltages as low as 12.9. With the new alternator, I have yet to see it drop below 13.9 after a couple months of driving.
This maybe deserves its own thread, but it is really interesting. On several of my vehicles previously, I've installed welding alternators. These would bump up stock current outputs from 90amps in one case all the way up to 200 or so. I'd love to put one on my LR4, too, but that looks like a no-go for any number of reasons.

Anyway, in none of those cases did I ever notice a change in charging voltage, nor should I have. I would expect the stock alternator to easily be able to keep voltage up under any normal circumstance.

If your measurements are accurate, it sort of seems to imply that the feedback mechanism to the BMS computer is measuring something other than the average voltage at the battery, or else the stock alternator really isn't up to the task, or ???
 

avslash

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It is interesting, but note that I made sure to specify "anecdotally". To get real measurements, you would need a calibrated volt/amp meter with a data logging function.

The extent of my measurement is a plug-in voltage gauge and/or plugging in my GAP Tool.

I know empirically that my factory alternator liked to hang out around 12.9 - 13.4 volts. If you disconnected/reconnected the BMS or reset the battery it would temporarily run higher, but would always settle back to 12.9 - 13.4 over the course of a few days. I know empirically that I have had the new alternator in for a few months and I have yet to see a voltage indication lower than 13.9.

What conclusions can we draw? None really, because we don't have good data. We know in general that as voltage decreases amperage increases for given amount of work or watts or in this case whatever the truck needs. That would lead me to believe, in general terms that the factory alternator was working at a higher percentage of ampacity of the alternator (voltage lower at 12.9 and amperage based on the needs of the truck). As the load required by the truck is the constant in this situation, it would stand to reason that the new alternator is working at a lower percentage of ampacity as the voltage is consistently higher and the needs of the truck haven't changed (Voltage higher at 13.9, needs of truck stayed constant, so amperage has to be lower).

This all before you get into the added complication of what the damned BMS system is telling the charging system to do.

At the end of day, for whatever amperage, I prefer my AGM batteries to be seeing 13.9 volts charging input rather than 12.9 so I'm happy with the change.
 

Troy A

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A buddy asked me recently if I would consider selling my Rover, which got my mind to thinking how I could ever put a price on this thing, which led me having a beer and trying from memory to list everything I have repaired or modified on this thing. That led to more beer to numb the pain. If my wife ever happens upon this post, I'm dead.

Feel free to post your own story of addiction.

2012 LR4 HSE Lux HD
97,000 Miles
Original Owner

F=Failed
P=Pre-emptive

Repairs and Maintenance

Transmission filter, outlet, fluid - P
Front Air Struts - P
Rear Air Struts - P
Front Axles – P – Upgrade to HD Wide Angle CV
Rear Axles – P – Upgrade to HD Wide Angle CV
Front Valve Block - F
Rear Valve Block - P
Chassis Valve Block - P
Air Compressor - P
Rear Drive Shaft - F
Rear Drive Shaft Carrier Bearing Support - F
Front Differential – P – Upgrade – ARB Air Locker
Timing chains/Chain Guides/Chain – P/F
Water pump - Three Times - F
Water pump to Oil Cooler Pipe - F
Alternator - P - Replaced with 220 amp HD
Front Brake Rotors/Pads - Twice - F
Rear Brake Rotors/Pads - Twice - F
Front Upper/Lower Control Arms bushings - F
Rear Upper/Lower Control Arm Bushings - F
Front Anti-Roll bar bushings - P
Rear Anti-Roll bar bushings - P
Front Wheel Bearings - P
Rear Wheel Bearings - P
Front Tie Rods - F
Front Ball Joints - F
Front Anti-Roll Bar Drop Links - F
Rear Wheel Knuckle Bushings - P
Rear Toe Arms - P
Rear HVAC O-rings - F
Front Cooling System Crossover Pipe - P
Rear Cooling System Heater Manifold - P
PCV Valve - F
Clock Spring – F
Windshield Valance Panel – F
Steering Rack - F


Modifications

TR Front Bumper w/ Swivel Hoists
TR Rear Bumper
TR Sliders
TR Gas Tank Skid
TR Transfer Case Skid
TR Spare Tire Swing-out
TR Jerry Can Carrier
Asfir Rear Diff Skid
LRA Auxiliary Fuel Tank
ARB Onboard Air
ARB Fridge in Second Row
Third Row Seat Delete and Sleeping Platform
18 Compomotive Wheels
33 inch BFG K02 Tires
Prospeed Roof Rack
Rear Hatch Ladder
Manual/Emergency Tail Gate Release
Blue Sea Auxiliary Fuse Panel in Cargo Area
Kenwood VHF/UHF Radio
Baofeng GMRS/MURS/FMRS Monitor Radio
Uniden CB Radio
Weboost Cell Phone Booster
Traxide Dual Battery System
Lensun Hood Mounted Solar Panel
Victron Bluetooth Solar Charge Controller
SYA 2.5 Spacers
GOE 2 Position Air Suspension Rods
GOE Emergency Air Kit
Warn Zeon 12,000 Pound Winch
VisionX Front Offroad Lights
GAP IID Bluetooth
ARB Rack Mounted Awning
Big Sky Overhead Rifle Rack
Bearmach Cargo Area Shelf
This should be pinned as the pre-emptive maintenance list on this forum. Glad you have so many memories? :). I keep coming back to the fact that these trucks are so damned good at most things. Not many other vehicles are so balanced with on-road/off-road capabilities so we put up with their other quirks.
 

m_lars

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Certainly not apples to apples comparing my 3 to the 4, but I’ve got over 200k miles on items you’ve done preemptively under 100k. I’m currently at a little over 265k and I’m due to replace the original rear upper control arms and rear struts. According to Instagram experts I’m WAY out of the ordinary because land rovers can’t make it out of the dealership parking lot without breaking down. Despite that I’ve had no worse luck with Rovers than any other brand I’ve owned, but I buy older vehicles I pay cash for.

It also seems like the 3 has fewer potentially serious engine issues (timing, crossover pipe) than the 4, but that’s just from very casual lurking the headlines in the weekly “most popular topics” email I get.
 

JVreeburg

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After 150,000 miles on my 2010 LR4, I just could not take it anymore. Every time I took it in it was a crazy amount of money just to do basic maintenance and repairs. Loved the vehicle but when you get to higher milage, it will empty your wallet.
 

ryanjl

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You've got to be very wealthy to "take in" a out of warranty Rover with no idea or expectation of what you are in for, especially if you are taking it into the dealer.

Thankfully, there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. The LR4 is old enough now that almost every issue has been tackled by someone else at some point, and the issues that have not are normally not incredibly difficult to solve. If you are not inclined to do the work yourself, the cost is somewhat reasonable to take it into an independent mechanic with an idea of what needs to be done. Basic maintenance and repairs shouldn't cost much more on an LR4 than they do on most other vehicles. The key is the independent mechanic part. I cannot fathom how Land Rover dealers charge what they charge for a break job, for example.

I love my LR4. As I said in the back liftgate thread, every time I solve an annoying little problem on it I wind up loving my LR4 even more. That said, I've kept mine somewhat simple and have only done things here and there as I've needed or wanted them. Unfortunately, I fear that LR4s are near the point that if mine was ever (knock on wood) totalled or stolen or whatever, I'm not sure I'd hunt down another LR4 to replace it. They're all getting older and it's getting harder and harder to find one with a good history. History is probably more important on these than options at this point. I know what I have in mine and would buy it right now in a heartbeat, but I don't know what's in all the other ones out there.
 

djkaosone

'11 LR4 HSE LUX 5.0L V8
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What conclusions can we draw? None really, because we don't have good data. We know in general that as voltage decreases amperage increases for given amount of work or watts or in this case whatever the truck needs. That would lead me to believe, in general terms that the factory alternator was working at a higher percentage of ampacity of the alternator (voltage lower at 12.9 and amperage based on the needs of the truck). As the load required by the truck is the constant in this situation, it would stand to reason that the new alternator is working at a lower percentage of ampacity as the voltage is consistently higher and the needs of the truck haven't changed (Voltage higher at 13.9, needs of truck stayed constant, so amperage has to be lower).
Good point. I seriously tracked my charging system for a whole month. Gap live values for battery quiescent current, state of charge, battery current (A), and battery voltage. It always ranged between 40% - 80% battery life and alternator load. No direct relationship either. The battery voltage for me ranged from 12.2V - 13.4V the majority of the time. There are times when it's in the 14.xV range, but not as much as I want.

Anyhow, I think you're on to something with alternator loads. My alternator load ranging in the 40% - 80% load all the time, even at 12.2V showing. I wonder if the ** alternator is giving out the same output with 3x less strain of the oem.
 

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