Long crank, no faults

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Jimmy Brooks

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Here's a thought, what if you reset the engine values with the gap iid tool? This will force the ecu to relearn new values.

They reprogrammed a junkyard ECM and stuck it in the car but said it didn’t make a difference. Worth a shot tho, I’ll try it when they put the car back together and give it back to me
 

greiswig

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If they’re right, hopefully they were able to correct the skipped tooth before they reassembled? If they could see that it skipped, maybe?

if it were me, I’d try to do that and see if it does happen again. No real risk there.
 

Jimmy Brooks

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If they’re right, hopefully they were able to correct the skipped tooth before they reassembled? If they could see that it skipped, maybe?

if it were me, I’d try to do that and see if it does happen again. No real risk there.

they told me they couldn’t recorrect it unless they pull the front timing cover. I’ll talk about it with them but I doubt they’ll do it. Worth a shot tho, definitely beats pulling timing covers or the whole engine out.

so odd though, has anyone heard of this happening on these cars.
 

theegovernor

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There is tool you use to check the fuel pump timing. I had to retime my pump because I timed it wrong when it was on the stand. Definitely shouldnt cost 6k to retime it. Do it yourself. I ended up retiming my pumps with the engine in the car.
 

theegovernor

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Believe he said they pulled the high pressure fuel pumps and were just able to see the cam follower and the markings and determine that it was just one tooth off.

As for the preformance thing I’m kinda stumped by it as well. They seemed to have the same reaction of being shocked as well. They said their guess is that one tooth isn’t enough to make a noticeable difference while running but enough to make it noticeable when it matters (cold starts). They also said they’ve seen one jag with the same issue but it was 2 teeth off and didn’t run at all. They said they also threw a new low pressure sensor in along with a new high pressure sensor. Believe they also threw new cam correlation sensors in.

Along with being so stumped with preformance I’m also stumped on why the issue would get gradually worse over time rather than just being as bad as it is now all at once.

In theory wouldn’t the car readjust spark timing and pluse timing via knock sensor to accommodate for the improperly timed fuel pump or is that theory out of wack.
The injectors dont have enough pressure when the engine goes to fire. There is no way to retime to get around that issue
 

Jimmy Brooks

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There is tool you use to check the fuel pump timing. I had to retime my pump because I timed it wrong when it was on the stand. Definitely shouldnt cost 6k to retime it. Do it yourself. I ended up retiming my pumps with the engine in the car.

Did you pull the front timing cover?
 

jlglr4

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In theory wouldn’t the car readjust spark timing and pluse timing via knock sensor to accommodate for the improperly timed fuel pump or is that theory out of wack.
I think the effect of an out of time hpfp would be lower than expected fuel pressure, and I believe the adjustment would need to be in the fuel trims. The car would still set fuel injection and spark at the optimum crank position, it just wouldn’t have the expected fuel pressure resulting in less fuel than expected in the cylinder. The o2 sensors would then tell the ecm more fuel is needed, and the car would adjust the pulse-width on the fuel injection to give more fuel - which would show up as positive fuel trim. But you’re not showing any fuel trims to speak of.

As for checking the timing, I think the only timing marks are on the timing chain itself and the sprockets on the crank and fuel pump cam, not on the cam followers. The manual calls for use of a special tool to check the pump timing - basically lock up the crank shaft in a particular position using one special tool, then insert the second special tool in a hole and it tells you if the cam is timed properly or not.

There also seems to be a section in the manual for adjusting the pump timing. Very little info and I can’t really understand what they’re telling you to do. Not sure this copy of the manual I have is complete.

Finally - here is someone’s thread on replacing the tensioner on the aux chain without pulling the motor. https://www.landroverworld.org/threads/auxiliary-chain-and-sprocket-change.44405/page-3. Doesn’t look fun. Hopefully @theegovernor will give you some better guidance on how to retime and maybe replace the tensioner if it has gone bad.
 

Jimmy Brooks

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I think the effect of an out of time hpfp would be lower than expected fuel pressure, and I believe the adjustment would need to be in the fuel trims. The car would still set fuel injection and spark at the optimum crank position, it just wouldn’t have the expected fuel pressure resulting in less fuel than expected in the cylinder. The o2 sensors would then tell the ecm more fuel is needed, and the car would adjust the pulse-width on the fuel injection to give more fuel - which would show up as positive fuel trim. But you’re not showing any fuel trims to speak of.

As for checking the timing, I think the only timing marks are on the timing chain itself and the sprockets on the crank and fuel pump cam, not on the cam followers. The manual calls for use of a special tool to check the pump timing - basically lock up the crank shaft in a particular position using one special tool, then insert the second special tool in a hole and it tells you if the cam is timed properly or not.

There also seems to be a section in the manual for adjusting the pump timing. Very little info and I can’t really understand what they’re telling you to do. Not sure this copy of the manual I have is complete.

Finally - here is someone’s thread on replacing the tensioner on the aux chain without pulling the motor. https://www.landroverworld.org/threads/auxiliary-chain-and-sprocket-change.44405/page-3. Doesn’t look fun. Hopefully @theegovernor will give you some better guidance on how to retime and maybe replace the tensioner if it has gone bad.


Ok this would by far be the most complicated project I have ever tried. If I am going to attempt this I’m going to have to be extremely organized and careful, take pictures of everything’s configuration and take it one step at a time

Do you think you could link me the part of the service manual that covered doing the timing chain and auxiliary chain. If I remember correctly the service manual should tell me all the tools I need but if there are any tools you recomend please link them. Is there a video or guide I could use along side the service manual to give me a good step by step process of the job? Lastly for anyone who has done the timing chain, any words of wisdom or advice?
 

dlimanov

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Check this video:
its the best one I’ve seen on the topic of DIY. It looks like with front timing chains covers off and the main chains removed, there’s plenty of room to remove the vacuum pump/hpfp chain tensioner and the little chain that drives it.
 

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