Living up to its unreliable history

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ktm525

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Okay, I'll add to it - lots of vehicles are both comfortable and heavy and manage to not run through control arm bushings every 50-60k miles. That part is either under-engineered or poorly made, plain and simple. I'm not crapping on the vehicle, I love them. I wouldn't have two if that weren't true. But there's no valid defense for that one screw-up.

Examples?

The old man's Yukon Denali is heavy but has nowhere near the ride quality of the LR4 despite the magnetic shocks.
 

BrandonM7

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Examples?

The old man's Yukon Denali is heavy but has nowhere near the ride quality of the LR4 despite the magnetic shocks.

Either you're blindly loyal or something is wrong with your old man's Yukon Denali. These do ride great, but to pretend they're perfect and float on a cloud above everything else is just not being impartial. They ride great. They're very nice. That's why I have two. 50,000 mile control arm bushings are a ******** thing to try to justify. An IRS-gen Expedition rides just as good and goes 150k+ on control arm bushings. It's not as cool, doesn't have as nice of an interior, etc, but it rides just as good. Not as fun to drive, not as capable at lots of things (that most of us don't actually do,) and all that. That's why I don't have two of those. Hell, the new Ram Limited (2019) rides even better and it's a pickup. It will have a HUUUUUGE amount of problems because it's a first-year Fiat/Chrysler ****, but it rides as good and weighs as much. I'm willing to bet, even on a Fiat/Chrysler product, that control arm bushings every 50k miles won't be one of those problems.

Every vehicle has a fault or two, it's no big deal. To pretend control arm bushings should last less than half the mileage they do on every other comparable vehicle on the road (many of which ride as well) is just silly. Europeans apparently just can't make bushings that work well AND last a reasonable amount of time for a heavy vehicle. The Toureg/Cayenne suffer the same problem, as do many of the heavy Mercedes models.
 

Quijote

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The LR4 is a very heavy vehicle for its short wheel base. It is a widely established fact that a longer wheelbase offers a better ride. Also, you can make a car ride smoothly with a soft suspension but then there is a hit in driving dynamics.

To make a heavy, short wheelbase vehicle like he LR4 ride and steer as well as it does (especially being so tall) is no small feat. Maybe the bushings is where they had to compromise.
 

ryanjl

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Yeah, sorry, not biting on the comparison to an Explorer. And the Ram has a totally different suspension than an LR4.

The fact that the bushing issue has existed since 2002 through multiple models and generations of Land Rover tells me it's something that just is what it is, and presumably a factor of vehicles of this weight, with this wheel travel, with this level of ride comfort. If it wasn't, it simply would have changed over that amount of time.
 

BrandonM7

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Yeah, sorry, not biting on the comparison to an Explorer. And the Ram has a totally different suspension than an LR4.

The fact that the bushing issue has existed since 2002 through multiple models and generations of Land Rover tells me it's something that just is what it is, and presumably a factor of vehicles of this weight, with this wheel travel, with this level of ride comfort. If it wasn't, it simply would have changed over that amount of time.

I never made a comparison to an Explorer. Problem from 2002 on means it is what it is -- I agree completely. A **** design that they didn't bother to revisit.
 

BrandonM7

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You're all correct, it's completely normal. Every other manufacturer hasn't been able to figure this out, the LR4 is the heaviest and best riding vehicle on the planet and this is to be expected.

Brand loyalty and pretending they don't make mistakes is the dumbest **** I've ever seen. This forum is truly impressive in that regard. Defend defend defend, Lord Pilkington works in mysterious ways, there must be a good reason for the part to fail laughably prematurely compared to every other vehicle in its class.
 

ryanjl

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Jesus, dude. It's just a car. Chill. No need for personal attacks.

Regardless, sorry, you didn't compare it to an Explorer. You said Expedition. My point still stands.

If, by your own admission, you are going to fight the stream and try to make your argument, bring the receipts, and don't just lose your ****.
 

BrandonM7

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Jesus, dude. It's just a car. Chill. No need for personal attacks.

Regardless, sorry, you didn't compare it to an Explorer. You said Expedition. My point still stands.

If, by your own admission, you are going to fight the stream and try to make your argument, bring the receipts, and don't just lose your ****.

I didn't make a personal attack intentionally - I broke my reply to you apart from the latter to try to make sure I didn't seem like I was singling you out. I'm sorry if it came out as personal, it was intended as a blanket.

I'm just astounded at how LR zealots accept obvious design flaws as if they're inevitable and can't be solved even though other manufacturers have solved them. It's been that way since the brand's beginnings, so I'm really not sure why it surprises me - but on the flip, it's hard to believe it still happens. Not unique to LR by any means, but somehow the LR fanboys seem to tolerate and justify more than any other brand I've owned.
 

Quijote

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For the record, I am not an LR fanboy at all. Feel free to read my hundreds of posts and I challenge you to find a single fanboy post. This is my first and will likely be my last Land Rover. I do love it for what it is, but I am primarily a sports car guy, so comparatively, the LR4 is boring to drive.

But as a mechanical design engineer with a couple of decades in machine design and product development, I know the challenges of meeting product requirements and real life limitations.

The LR4 was heavily redesigned for 2010, so why not swap out the bushings then? The answer likely is that the ride quality or logevity of other components may have been affected and they decided against it. It’s pure conjecture, but plausible.

I knew going in that it would be an expensive vehicle to run and, knowing I wouldn’t drive it much, I was ok with that. For what it is and what it offers, it has been great and we love it. I plan to keep it forever.
 

ktm525

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The LR4 got hit last year and was in the auto body for almost 4 months. I was given an Expedition Max (new) to drive for that period and the ride quality was not at the same level (despite the greater wheelbase) of my at the time 7 year old LR4. The Expedition was ok and much better than the Denali (on 20" wheels)but nowhere near the LR. I made the mistake of poly bushings in my first LR3. It was a disaster and ruined the ride, I quickly swapped them for the hydro bushings.

IMG_2127.JPG


Here is a pic for fun
 

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